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I got my new 331 and it is installed..........
- Thread starter 68EFIvert
- Start date
68EFIvert
Well-Known Member
Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
Well the guy that is going to build my radiator came back to me and recommended that I use a radiator with 4 small fans. He sent me this picture as an example on one he has built. It looks like I have a plan! I need to get him some height measurements of the radiator I need. It should look pretty trick and work great!
wizardcooling.com
Well the guy that is going to build my radiator came back to me and recommended that I use a radiator with 4 small fans. He sent me this picture as an example on one he has built. It looks like I have a plan! I need to get him some height measurements of the radiator I need. It should look pretty trick and work great!
wizardcooling.com
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Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
Hey darreld, what is the CFM rating of each small fan? Sometimes when you have small fans, the motor takes up more space than the fin area. Looking at your picture it will be the same with your setup. That will likely end up with smaller CFM ratings and smaller total opening for air to flow through at high speeds. I'm just throwing ideas out there, not trying to talk you out of anything. That 4 fan setup is sweet, but thought I'd throw out a few of my concerns for you to check into.
Hey darreld, what is the CFM rating of each small fan? Sometimes when you have small fans, the motor takes up more space than the fin area. Looking at your picture it will be the same with your setup. That will likely end up with smaller CFM ratings and smaller total opening for air to flow through at high speeds. I'm just throwing ideas out there, not trying to talk you out of anything. That 4 fan setup is sweet, but thought I'd throw out a few of my concerns for you to check into.
68EFIvert
Well-Known Member
Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
I am learning the CFM is a hard thing to rely on with fans. Scott, my radiator guy, used to use Zirgo fans (what I have now) and no longer does because of reliability issue. If I am understanding him correctly fans CFM can vary depending on the resistance. If a fan is rated at 3000 cfm in the open air it won't do that when hooked up to a radiator. He prefers to use Spal fans and I am not sure of the model he was going to use. They have two types a standard and high output version. The standard puts out 550ish CFM and the HO about 740 CFM. I dodn't think I have the space to use the HO versions so I would venture that the 4 fans setup would put out 2200 cfm or so.
What I like about the sample radiator is that the air will flow through all the fins rather than just the 16" circle like my current setup. Basically the efficient design of the shroud and it just looks cool. Price should be similiar or slightly more than a Be Cool/Griffin radiator alone. I still haven't eliminated the Contour fan setup from my plans. I will spend the weekend thinking about it before I make a decision.
I appreciate you bringing up concerns. That is why I am posting this stuff here. I am pretty detailed in my thinking and I am tired of doing things twice. I want to do it right once and not worry about it again.
I am learning the CFM is a hard thing to rely on with fans. Scott, my radiator guy, used to use Zirgo fans (what I have now) and no longer does because of reliability issue. If I am understanding him correctly fans CFM can vary depending on the resistance. If a fan is rated at 3000 cfm in the open air it won't do that when hooked up to a radiator. He prefers to use Spal fans and I am not sure of the model he was going to use. They have two types a standard and high output version. The standard puts out 550ish CFM and the HO about 740 CFM. I dodn't think I have the space to use the HO versions so I would venture that the 4 fans setup would put out 2200 cfm or so.
What I like about the sample radiator is that the air will flow through all the fins rather than just the 16" circle like my current setup. Basically the efficient design of the shroud and it just looks cool. Price should be similiar or slightly more than a Be Cool/Griffin radiator alone. I still haven't eliminated the Contour fan setup from my plans. I will spend the weekend thinking about it before I make a decision.
I appreciate you bringing up concerns. That is why I am posting this stuff here. I am pretty detailed in my thinking and I am tired of doing things twice. I want to do it right once and not worry about it again.
Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
You are correct. Most fans are rated free-air. Resistance reduces the CFM and increases the amperage needed.
I had the Zirgo Beyond Cool 16" fan on my mach originally, which they claimed 4000cfm or so. Bunch of crap and definitely overrated. SPAL does have PDFs with specs of each fan that they have.
good luck with the decision. If you decide to go with the contour fan setup, you can always have your radiator guy make an aluminum shroud with those fins cut out. Cut up the contour fan shroud and leave mounting tabs to bolt/rivet the fan assembly to the aluminum shroud. That is my plan, but without the fins. You'll have to make sure your core is wide enough though
You are correct. Most fans are rated free-air. Resistance reduces the CFM and increases the amperage needed.
I had the Zirgo Beyond Cool 16" fan on my mach originally, which they claimed 4000cfm or so. Bunch of crap and definitely overrated. SPAL does have PDFs with specs of each fan that they have.
good luck with the decision. If you decide to go with the contour fan setup, you can always have your radiator guy make an aluminum shroud with those fins cut out. Cut up the contour fan shroud and leave mounting tabs to bolt/rivet the fan assembly to the aluminum shroud. That is my plan, but without the fins. You'll have to make sure your core is wide enough though
Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
I beleive if you have a shroud, then the air is drawn from everything every gap covered by the shroud. Your original setup doesn't have a shroud and so only the 16" area is getting the benifit ot the fan... I'm willing to bet just shrouding your existing fan would make it cool better. I'm with buening on the open or flow through area. A single 16" fan with a 5" diameter motor gives 181.4 sqare inches of area, where as the 4 fan arrangement, ( assuming 8" diamer with 4" motors) only gives 150 sqaure inches. So you might effectively lose airflow capacity which I think you would want to maximize while driving at speed to give the fans a break. Assuming the fans in the picture are going to be used and in a similar arrangement, I'd be worried about turbulance inside the shroud. The fans don't appear to have that ring tying the blades to each other, so I'd expect some of the air will be pushed off the end of the blade into the area of the adjacent fan as opposed to just being pushed out of the shroud... I would think that would create more noise, draw more current and be less effective too.
I'm no cooling or aero expert, but those are some of the things that would concern me. Personally I'd go with the largest radiator you can fit, larger dual fans seperated as much as possible, one fan as close to the inlet tube as possible to start the cooling process quickly. You might also want to look at the crossflow radiators that have the seperator halfway up the tank so that it forces all coolant to make two passes through cooling tubes. First on the upper half, then on the lower half to the exit port. Also, the 2 x 12" fans with 5" diameter motors give 187" of flow through area. Anyway, there's my 2 cents...
"68EFIvert" said:
I beleive if you have a shroud, then the air is drawn from everything every gap covered by the shroud. Your original setup doesn't have a shroud and so only the 16" area is getting the benifit ot the fan... I'm willing to bet just shrouding your existing fan would make it cool better. I'm with buening on the open or flow through area. A single 16" fan with a 5" diameter motor gives 181.4 sqare inches of area, where as the 4 fan arrangement, ( assuming 8" diamer with 4" motors) only gives 150 sqaure inches. So you might effectively lose airflow capacity which I think you would want to maximize while driving at speed to give the fans a break. Assuming the fans in the picture are going to be used and in a similar arrangement, I'd be worried about turbulance inside the shroud. The fans don't appear to have that ring tying the blades to each other, so I'd expect some of the air will be pushed off the end of the blade into the area of the adjacent fan as opposed to just being pushed out of the shroud... I would think that would create more noise, draw more current and be less effective too.
I'm no cooling or aero expert, but those are some of the things that would concern me. Personally I'd go with the largest radiator you can fit, larger dual fans seperated as much as possible, one fan as close to the inlet tube as possible to start the cooling process quickly. You might also want to look at the crossflow radiators that have the seperator halfway up the tank so that it forces all coolant to make two passes through cooling tubes. First on the upper half, then on the lower half to the exit port. Also, the 2 x 12" fans with 5" diameter motors give 187" of flow through area. Anyway, there's my 2 cents...
68EFIvert
Well-Known Member
Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
Here is an update. After reviewing more of my measurements and photos my radiator guy has recommended I go with a dual pass cross flow that has both inlet and outlet on the drivers side. I just don't have much room on the passenger side for the inlet due to the blower and fan shroud. I don't know much about dual pass radiators other than the coolant has to go through the radiator twice before it can go back to the engine. I assume that will help to cool the car. He is still recommending I use 4 9" fans.
I think most of the options listed on this thread would likely cool the car. I will use a multiple fan setup since I have already experienced a fan going out when I was using a single electic fan. By using multiple fans I will at least have 1 fan to help with the cooling of my car. That leaves me with dual 12"'s/10's or 4 9" fans. It doesn't really matter to me. I just want it to work, look nice and not cost an arm and a leg.
I made some nice progress on the engine this past week.
* Reran the vacuum lines to clean up the engine a bit
* installed plugs
* installed upper intake
* wired the waterpump
* tapped the intake tube for the water/meth injection nozzle
* installed the heater hoses with AN fittings
* installed headers
What still needs to be done
* radiator
* pick up a new PVC filter and grommet
* install blower inlet and output tubing
* clean up and put on plug wires
* blead the brakes (had to disconect the brake lines so that I did not beat up the new valve cover on install)
* mount the h2o/meth pump and tank once I have radiator measurements (I plan on mounting the pump on the strut rod bracket on the PS. The fluid tank will go on the rear apron on the PS)
* put monte carlo and export brace back in.
* bolt up collectors
* bolt in engine crossmember.
All pretty small things but just take time. I'll have to fabricate a bracket for the water/meth pump but that will be a breeze.
Here is an update. After reviewing more of my measurements and photos my radiator guy has recommended I go with a dual pass cross flow that has both inlet and outlet on the drivers side. I just don't have much room on the passenger side for the inlet due to the blower and fan shroud. I don't know much about dual pass radiators other than the coolant has to go through the radiator twice before it can go back to the engine. I assume that will help to cool the car. He is still recommending I use 4 9" fans.
I think most of the options listed on this thread would likely cool the car. I will use a multiple fan setup since I have already experienced a fan going out when I was using a single electic fan. By using multiple fans I will at least have 1 fan to help with the cooling of my car. That leaves me with dual 12"'s/10's or 4 9" fans. It doesn't really matter to me. I just want it to work, look nice and not cost an arm and a leg.
I made some nice progress on the engine this past week.
* Reran the vacuum lines to clean up the engine a bit
* installed plugs
* installed upper intake
* wired the waterpump
* tapped the intake tube for the water/meth injection nozzle
* installed the heater hoses with AN fittings
* installed headers
What still needs to be done
* radiator
* pick up a new PVC filter and grommet
* install blower inlet and output tubing
* clean up and put on plug wires
* blead the brakes (had to disconect the brake lines so that I did not beat up the new valve cover on install)
* mount the h2o/meth pump and tank once I have radiator measurements (I plan on mounting the pump on the strut rod bracket on the PS. The fluid tank will go on the rear apron on the PS)
* put monte carlo and export brace back in.
* bolt up collectors
* bolt in engine crossmember.
All pretty small things but just take time. I'll have to fabricate a bracket for the water/meth pump but that will be a breeze.
68EFIvert
Well-Known Member
Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
Well I ordered the radiator yesterday. It will be a cross flow with both inlet and outlet on the DS. It will have a temp sensor mounted on the tank so that I can control two fans at 180 and the other 2 come on if it hits 195. It should take about a week to build and then about a week to arrive via UPS. I ended up paying about $650 for the whole setup. I don't think I could have touched that price with a griffin radiator and using a Contour fan which was my second choice. I'll post some pictures when it arrives. Thanks for the help guys.
Well I ordered the radiator yesterday. It will be a cross flow with both inlet and outlet on the DS. It will have a temp sensor mounted on the tank so that I can control two fans at 180 and the other 2 come on if it hits 195. It should take about a week to build and then about a week to arrive via UPS. I ended up paying about $650 for the whole setup. I don't think I could have touched that price with a griffin radiator and using a Contour fan which was my second choice. I'll post some pictures when it arrives. Thanks for the help guys.
Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
I think you'll like the setup! You'll be one of the few with four cooling fans.
FWIW, I have $200 in my Northern radiator, $75 for the aluminum fan shroud, and $50 in my contour fan. Still have to buy the fan controller though, so tack on another $150 or so.
I think you'll like the setup! You'll be one of the few with four cooling fans.
FWIW, I have $200 in my Northern radiator, $75 for the aluminum fan shroud, and $50 in my contour fan. Still have to buy the fan controller though, so tack on another $150 or so.
68EFIvert
Well-Known Member
Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
I never thought I could get excited about a raditor but I just did. I opened the box and almost got wood. I'll post some pictures tonight. This thing looks like it should be made into a coffee table than be used as a radiator. :craz
bj The welds are beautiful and wait until you see how he ran the overflow tubing from the passenger side to the drivers side. Quite a work of art.
I never thought I could get excited about a raditor but I just did. I opened the box and almost got wood. I'll post some pictures tonight. This thing looks like it should be made into a coffee table than be used as a radiator. :craz
bj The welds are beautiful and wait until you see how he ran the overflow tubing from the passenger side to the drivers side. Quite a work of art.
Gigantopithecus
Well-Known Member
Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
Man, that's a work of art.
Man, that's a work of art.
Fast68back
Guest
Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
Very freaking sweet. How does it mount?
Very freaking sweet. How does it mount?
68EFIvert
Well-Known Member
Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
I had him mount the flanges on the side. They are 3/4" wide and I will bolt it to the shroud. I figure that way I can get it exactly where I want it and won't have to worry about top mounts or a cradle at the bottom of the radiator support. Before I put it in I will have to do some trimming to the shroud. I want as much of the face of the radiator showing as possible.
I had him mount the flanges on the side. They are 3/4" wide and I will bolt it to the shroud. I figure that way I can get it exactly where I want it and won't have to worry about top mounts or a cradle at the bottom of the radiator support. Before I put it in I will have to do some trimming to the shroud. I want as much of the face of the radiator showing as possible.
jonward786
Member
Re: I got my new 331 and it is installed............well sort of.
hoooooly sh!t. never seen one that blatantly awesome.
hoooooly sh!t. never seen one that blatantly awesome.