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Where do you think the Sound Deadening products are coming from?

T

toddwallace

Member
I have been doing a lot of research on Sound and thermal products for the mustang. Lots of debates over Liquid deadeners and the thin layer of rubberized asphalt and/or Butyl compound with a constraining layer of aluminum foil. companies such as Fatmat, Dynamat and Second Skin all the way to the Big Box building products. In the research, I saw a video that Ant made where he showed his warehouse full of large rolls of the product that appear to get cut to smaller sizes for the consumer. He also made reference that Second Skin got started for $700. This got me thinking and doing a bit more research.. My big question was whether these companies actually made thier own products and research or did the buy in bulk and repackage with thier branding. The big differences in the products seems to be the level of Butyl Rubber and Thickness in the foil and the rubber compound. Reading the Sound Deadner Showdown review (and now he has his own products), Does anyone know where these people are buying (or where you could buy) in bulk? The quote to do my car is around $600. I would be willing to buy in bulk and sell the extra online.

Anyone have any insight to where these products might be coming from??
 
I can shed a little light on this, only because I sell a sound deadening product that is my own house brand.

First - all the sound deadening products are not just produced for automotive use, they are used in the housing industry, boating industry, recording studio industry and have around for years. In fact - the lizard skin product was developed in the Houston Texas area for NASA, and the space shuttle.

Also - keep in mind that some of these product talk about heat resistance, up to 500* - well if it's that hot on your floor boards, I think you have other things to worry about!

I was a dealer for Second skin, Ant has a wonderful product, and he is fantastic at marketing. For me to continue to carry his product, I would of had to buy at large amounts, and he really is not into wholesale. He would rather sell retail - direct to the public. He does not make his own products. The machines and resources to bond the materials to the aluminum is found in the chemical industry, and even in tar and roofing product industry.

I have talked to Ant personally, and he has everything "Made" for him. Iam sure it's just a white label of a buty/aluminum product. In fact some of the cloth products he sells you can find variation of at other places for cheaper.

Such as:
http://www.perfectfit.com/15269/154086/ ... ution.html

and:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/117/3494/=fkufem

http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/110/3270.pdf



Iam active in the 4x4 community, where some of these trucks are very loud. Here is a great debate on the products. (mine included)

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/ ... ive-4.html


This is a great read about lizard skin:
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/alterna ... 03610.html
 
"mmw68" said:
I was a dealer for Second skin, Ant has a wonderful product, and he is fantastic at marketing. For me to continue to carry his product, I would of had to buy at large amounts, and he really is not into wholesale. He would rather sell retail - direct to the public. He does not make his own products. The machines and resources to bond the materials to the aluminum is found in the chemical industry, and even in tar and roofing product industry.

I have talked to Ant personally, and he has everything "Made" for him. Iam sure it's just a white label of a buty/aluminum product. In fact some of the cloth products he sells you can find variation of at other places for cheaper.
Click to expand...

Any idea what his Spectrum is? Definitely not Lizard Skin like...
 
Why do you think it's not like Lizard Skin? I really have no idea what his is. But what I do know, is they are all a "Thick paint" with some type of pellets that act as insulation. The thickness of the paint will deaden the metal, and the pellets will insulate from heat.

If you over think all this - you can drive your self mad! :pbj
 
"mmw68" said:
Why do you think it's not like Lizard Skin? I really have no idea what his is. But what I do know, is they are all a "Thick paint" with some type of pellets that act as insulation. The thickness of the paint will deaden the metal, and the pellets will insulate from heat.

If you over think all this - you can drive your self mad! :pbj
Click to expand...

Thick paint and this...
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/c ... ubbles.php
That's what Lizard Skin is.

Bill
 
"mmw68" said:
Why do you think it's not like Lizard Skin? I really have no idea what his is. But what I do know, is they are all a "Thick paint" with some type of pellets that act as insulation. The thickness of the paint will deaden the metal, and the pellets will insulate from heat.

If you over think all this - you can drive your self mad! :pbj
Click to expand...

I think that is like Second Skin's sludge product, but the spectrum is like a bed liner that is sprayed on. If you were adding these micro sphere's to coat the inner fender well and over the foil backed buytle rubber, what paint would you use?
 
"toddwallace" said:
I think that is like Second Skin's sludge product, but the spectrum is like a bed liner that is sprayed on. If you were adding these micro sphere's to coat the inner fender well and over the foil backed buytle rubber, what paint would you use?
Click to expand...

That's the million dollar question I suppose lol.
Bill
 
"cmayna" said:
This is a good post. I use Ant's products in both Mustangs and they are not cheap.
Click to expand...

Which do you use? They are suggesting:

This is how it would work out for your Fastback:

Step 1 - Interior vibration damping
Apply a layer of Damplifier or Damplifier Pro to the interior of the cars sheet metal (under the carpet, behind the upholstery, and most importantly, directly behind the noisy spots)
* Your vehicle can use 80-120 sq feet depending on how detailed you want to get
* You can see these products by clicking here:
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/products ... uction.php


Step 2- Interior Noise Barriers
Apply a layer of Luxury Liner Pro on top of the vibration mat to block stubborn airborne noise (this will make a tremendous difference with the goals you listed)
* You can use between 4 & 5 sheets + 1 can of adhesive for every 4 sheets you use
* You can see these products by clicking here:
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/products ... adener.php


These 2 steps are the base foundation for the sound deadnening and thermal control. Both noise, and heat will be reduced by a very large margine!
If you want to take it a step further you could do this:

Step 3
 
Lets break this down for other people who are reading this thread on the "Why" of the steps, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - then pick your favorite product.

Here is what I tell my customers, they can pick any vendors product, but the science is the same. Each product kills a certain aspect of road noise, keeps out heat, or kills certain noise frequencies.
 
1. Deaden the metal. Adding weight to the metal will accomplish this. You don't even have to coat the entire area, just enough to stop it from vibrating when the car is moving. Tiles, sludge, bed-liner, even roofing material (peel and stick). They all accomplish the same thing.

2. Heat - you want to block some heat from getting thru to the interior of the car. For my clients this is important, because they are installing a Vintage Air Unit. So keeping the cold air in, and the hot air out is the key. Again, pick your method. You could use a sludge with the ceramic beads in it, or the vibration damping with the foil backing. Or even a product like http://www.lobucrod.com Again - your pick.

Some folks ask me - why can't I don both, a sludge/paint, then a deader matt. Sure you could, but I would just pick one and put those funds towards the next step. If you have hard to reach areas like a firewall, or can spray the whole car. Then use a paint product. If you just want to do the floors with out a mess - use a deader matt. If you double up lets say a sludge and deadener, I don't the the improvement will be worth the funds and your time.

3. Now that you have the heat, and the metal surface deadened. It time to kill other noise frequencies that the deadeners have missed. Jute and carpet will do this. But if you want something even better, then you use closed cell foam, neoprene, or a liner. Then the jute, or carpet on top of that.

4. Tire noise - Have you ever noticed the inner wheel wells of luxury cars being coated with some type of sound deadener coating. Your tires emit noise, and sound waves that vibrate up thru the car. Think of it like slinging mud, but instead - noise. So coating the inner wells is the next step.

Ever been in a old school gym with all those hard surfaces, wood floors, brick walls. You know how noisy it is. The sound waves are just bouncing around and being noisy. Now - look at a opera house, they have wavy cloth, or washboard shaped items on the walls. These break up the sound waves as they hit the walls so they don't reflect back. Same thing is happening in your wheel wells, so applying a coating in the wells and breaks up sound waves from the tires.

5. Doors - Don't forget the doors. You have now spent all this money and time to make your car as quiet as possible, but you don't add new weather stripping or window tint, and you don't soundproof the doors. A lot of road noise comes thru the doors. In fact if your on a budget, I tell people to put some sound proofing on the inner skin of the door, and replace the plastic OEM vapor barrier. And don't forget new weather striping. You will be amazed at how much improvement of road noise and cooling that will make.

Think about it, - every door is designed so that water travels down the window and drips out the bottom of the weep holes in the doors. Noise follows the same path, and if you don't have a vapor/noise shield in place to block that noise, it just comes into the car. Also the outer door skin is a large sheet of metal - so you need something on the inside skin to deaden it.


Good Luck! - Mark
 
According to second skins website damplifier is a vibrration sound reducer similar to their sludge roll on material. Thus i applied damifier pro everywhere i could starting at the firewall under the dash allthe way back into the trunk. I used the roll on outside of fender well underneath, inside the rear quarters as well as inside the doors. Virtually everywhere i felt using damplifier would be difficult.

I then applied a crap load if their luxury liner pro on top of the damplifier whereever I could.
 
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