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Sound Deadner Question

F

Fordication

Member
Ok so I pulled out my seats to install my new carpet and the roll of dynamat like sound deadner below the carpet. I found that the factory tar like insulation is still there in good shape. Question is what do I do now? I want to make sure that the car is as quite as possible but I like the factory padding on the floor of the car. SHould I remove the factory and put the mat down then reinstall the factory over it then the new carpet or just go over the factory padding? This one is important, I want a daily driver I can hear my stereo in. As soon as this car is done, I am selling my wifes car and she gets my truck.
 
I would remove the original factory underlayment so you can carefully inspect and clean up the floor pans. I would then planning to install some vibration dampening materials directly to the sheet metal followed by a sound and heat deadener then your new carpet.

Keep in mind that not often do you have the interior stripped out, so take advantage and do it right so you can enjoy that stereo of yours.

You might look at the following site. Full of good info and they have a forum as well.

www.secondskinaudio.com
 
I would clean and POR 15 the floors (as cmayna said) and reinstill the original Butyl deadener (40 years old and still is in good shape should tell you something) followed by some anti-fatique mat that works as well if not better than most of the purpose made expensive stuff. About 30 bucks from "Lowe's" and you can do the whole car (even the roof). Its 'closed cell' and has extremely good insulative properties as well as muffling the noise. Also, it forms easy with a heat gun and can be glued with spray contact adhesive. Course I'm a cheapskate but I would put this combo up against anything on the market.
 
That sounds good. I may use that AF mat under the roof but I have several rolls of that second skin sound deadner I need to use first. I also have a gallon of the paint on stuff I am going to use in the rear quarter area and inside the doors. If that does not slow down the road noise nothing will. I got my trunk carpet last week and my grille with chrome is installed now. Pictures are coming real soon but to be honest to car looked real good before I started it.
 
"67 evil eleanor" said:
I would clean and POR 15 the floors (as cmayna said) and reinstill the original Butyl deadener (40 years old and still is in good shape should tell you something) followed by some anti-fatique mat that works as well if not better than most of the purpose made expensive stuff. About 30 bucks from "Lowe's" and you can do the whole car (even the roof). Its 'closed cell' and has extremely good insulative properties as well as muffling the noise. Also, it forms easy with a heat gun and can be glued with spray contact adhesive. Course I'm a cheapskate but I would put this combo up against anything on the market.
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Not to start a debate but a closed-cell mat is not going to perform as well as the purpose built products. It will "muffle" some sound as you state but that is not what the other products are engineered to do. As a poor man's alternative it can certainly help quiet things a bit but truly there is no real comparison. You can do some makeshift testing at home with various materials and see this firsthand.
My real point I wanted to bring up is that using a can of spray adhesive to hold anything to a vertical surface, let alone the bottom of a roof, is simply not a good idea. If not from heat alone, the adhesive will fail and let the material fall and sag, over time. I wouldn't want to be removing my headliner to deal with the stuff coming loose and causing it to sag.
If you serious about controlling sound and or heat in your car, take the time and spend the money to do it right now. Like Craig said, you don't have the car gutted often so now is the time to do it up right.
 
The funny thing was when I removed the original carpet, which was in good shape, I found the checklist for Ford when they built the car. Obviously it has problems during initial inspection because they noted damage to the left 1/4 panel and lighting problems with the glove box. I also found some plastic clips I need for the chrome trim install. Thats always a good thing. I wonder what they used to keep up the old headliner padding.
 
"Fordication" said:
I wonder what they used to keep up the old headliner padding.
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I'm sure someone will chime in with the answer of exactly what they used but I can tell you it was a much better adhesive then something like a can of 3M 88 spray adhesive! Not all adhesives are created equal by any stretch. Some work better over wider temp ranges and others hold up much better over time.
Also note that the original material was fibrous and lighter in weight than many of the new materials people try to glue in place. The fibrous materials also tend to bond better with the adhesive as it penetrates into the individual fibers yielding a much better net contact area.
 
I tried using the 3M superadhesive spray (77?) on my firewall using the frostking insulation rolls from HD/Lowes, I sprayed both sides and let get tacky per instructions and stuck it on. The next day I tested it and peeled it right off, the floor had been prepped/cleaned but as horseplay mentioned I guess it wasn't pourous enough. I would only use it on flooring surfaces, I'll probably use it in my trunk to get rid of it. I POR15'd the inner firewall and rolled on Damplifier is pieces and it stuck like glue. I'll be using that on the roof too.
Jon
 
3M 77 isn't what is used for headliners - the 3M 82 is what is used (and pretty darned expensive). My buddies in our additives division tell me 3M sells it to the people that make headliners for the sutomakers. Those last 10+ years - but, they don't weigh much either.

I redid the headliner in my BMW, and used the permatex headliner adhesive - it worked well - but again, it is just foam with a cloth surface. Very light.

OTOH, there is a 'bellows adhesive' used on Mercruiser outdrive (boats) - that stuff requires a crowbar to get the bellows off, and even then it often rips the bellows. Strongest contact adhesive I've ever seen.
 
Yep, I should have mentioned the differ in adhesives. Looking at the 3M site it appears that they have gone cheap. "What" I did use had a higher temperature rating than the regular spray adhesive and was about twice the price. It looks like now the good stuff is not available and the labels have also changed. I remember that we had trouble with the regular adhesive but never have had anything come loose (even under the roof) using the old "Super" adhesive. I guess things have really changed and its been a while since I've had to buy any.
 
Well, the first question was moot. The old tar pad disintergrated when I tried to remove it. So now its all stickum on stuff. Ford left all sorts of paperwork under the pads. Got the back seat area done.
 
That was kinda my point, the 'super' 77 didn't even hold the material I was trying to glue to a vertical surface much less a hanging one like the roof. I tossed my old tar mats also as they were breaking apart and breaking down, they left puddles of oily residue under the back seats. I used a gasket scraper to get the chunks up and then put 'Goo Gone' in a spray bottle to get all the remaining smears and liquid off. This stuff works wonders on the left over tar but have a load of disposable rags handy and it smells really odd so you'll want to ventilate after using. A spray and soak, few wipes and it's spotless and ready for primer or POR15 in my case as there is some bare metal spots under there in my car.
Jon
 
Nah, I did not find bare metal but did find patches of sealant. I rolled right over it since it was solid. I placed a 1/4" piece of plywood in the back of the seat area to close up the trunk then sealed it with the roll of deadner up to the rear deck. I am in Austin right now so when I get back I will finish the job. So none of you ever used the aluminum tar paper on the roof? I guess its going to be a new pad or foam then.
 
If you are using a sound deadner product that is made for the application than yes, by all means put it on the underside of your roof. That expanse of steel is one of, if not the, largest contributor to vibration noise (harmonics) in the whole car. Products like Dynamat, etc. will adhere and stay stuck there as long as it is applied properly.
 
I agree that the roof is far from being the noise culprit in our rigs. At worst case it could cause a vibration sound which your diamplifier pro or other similar vibration dampner material would take care of. But the odds that this is an issue area was weak enough that I did not bother doing anything in my roof.

The biggest issues are vibration sounds, road noise, motor/exhaust noise & exhaust heat. One item will not take care of all 4 of these problems.
 
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