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My newest project, '59 Apache Truck
- Thread starter Dne'
- Start date
Dne'
Well-Known Member
.60 over?
I spoke with Herb,(you'll probably hear that name often), about my engine block~ said it's already .60 over reading my digital caliper, but I'll bring it to him today and he'll send it out for checking for cracks, and whatever else they do. He said they can go as far a .80 over if the block is healthy. When removing the pistons, there was no ridge and the piston came out relatively easy. So I'm hoping maybe we can just keep the block the way it is and hone it, and maybe put new pistons or maybe not~ I'm not looking for a motor to boil my tires, just to run well. I'll keep the 2v carb/intake.
On the drive home, the old motor didn't blow any blue smoke, maybe an occasional puff of black faintly would come out now n then during the 50 mile drive.
So, I'll be back later on~ busy day with doctors~ hell being a human! lol
I spoke with Herb,(you'll probably hear that name often), about my engine block~ said it's already .60 over reading my digital caliper, but I'll bring it to him today and he'll send it out for checking for cracks, and whatever else they do. He said they can go as far a .80 over if the block is healthy. When removing the pistons, there was no ridge and the piston came out relatively easy. So I'm hoping maybe we can just keep the block the way it is and hone it, and maybe put new pistons or maybe not~ I'm not looking for a motor to boil my tires, just to run well. I'll keep the 2v carb/intake.
On the drive home, the old motor didn't blow any blue smoke, maybe an occasional puff of black faintly would come out now n then during the 50 mile drive.
So, I'll be back later on~ busy day with doctors~ hell being a human! lol
O
opentrackerSteve
Guest
You need to slam that six cylinder in the impala and run that thing in a demolition derby. It would be epic!
I just did the same thing with my 350. honed it lightly and put new rings on it. So far it seems good although I haven't street driven it yet.
FYI, The dished pistons you removed are practically the same cast ones I pulled out of my engine. The compression ratio on mine calculated out at 7.3:1 and therefore switched over to flat top pistons with 4 valve reliefs to bring the compression up. The Sealed Power ZH345NCP60 pistons have the teflon coating on the skirts. I think they were about $115 for the set. Even if your not looking for a tire burner, raising the compression from the 7.3:1 that your current pistons have will be a worthwhile upgrade IMO...
You might want to think about picking up a stock rochester 4 barrel carb and intake. If you don't lean on it you'll get a little better gas mileage since the primaries are a bit smaller. On the freeway my old '73 impala went from about 11 with the 2 bbl, to 13 with the rochester, and back down to with the holley 600.
Good to know you can go up to .080 over. I was under the impression .060 over was the max you could go.
FYI, The dished pistons you removed are practically the same cast ones I pulled out of my engine. The compression ratio on mine calculated out at 7.3:1 and therefore switched over to flat top pistons with 4 valve reliefs to bring the compression up. The Sealed Power ZH345NCP60 pistons have the teflon coating on the skirts. I think they were about $115 for the set. Even if your not looking for a tire burner, raising the compression from the 7.3:1 that your current pistons have will be a worthwhile upgrade IMO...
You might want to think about picking up a stock rochester 4 barrel carb and intake. If you don't lean on it you'll get a little better gas mileage since the primaries are a bit smaller. On the freeway my old '73 impala went from about 11 with the 2 bbl, to 13 with the rochester, and back down to with the holley 600.
Good to know you can go up to .080 over. I was under the impression .060 over was the max you could go.
Dne'
Well-Known Member
Baja loaded with engine
ha, I guess if the I6 would fit in the Impala just to get it out of the way could be ok~ it just sounds like unproductive work towards my goal. When it comes to that day of pulling the 6, I think I'll just make a crate for it, video it running just in case someone wants to buy it. Maybe I could recoop some money from it even if I only get a 100 bucks!
Stangg, I'll find out more about the .080 when I see Herb today~ if you'd ever like to talk to him, he's wonderful to talk to and very knowledgeable, just let me know and I can give you his number. 7 compresssionist! omg, how did it run on such low compression and why?
Maybe Herb knows someone who has the old 4 barrel intake and carb, many folks remove those I would think.
Anyway, the subaru Baja is loaded to take the stuff to Herb. Again, my "little Mule" saves the day! ; )
ha, I guess if the I6 would fit in the Impala just to get it out of the way could be ok~ it just sounds like unproductive work towards my goal. When it comes to that day of pulling the 6, I think I'll just make a crate for it, video it running just in case someone wants to buy it. Maybe I could recoop some money from it even if I only get a 100 bucks!
Stangg, I'll find out more about the .080 when I see Herb today~ if you'd ever like to talk to him, he's wonderful to talk to and very knowledgeable, just let me know and I can give you his number. 7 compresssionist! omg, how did it run on such low compression and why?
Maybe Herb knows someone who has the old 4 barrel intake and carb, many folks remove those I would think.
Anyway, the subaru Baja is loaded to take the stuff to Herb. Again, my "little Mule" saves the day! ; )
guruatbol
Always on vacation!
When I worked on the farm I honed a 350 from a 76 Silverado and it ran another 100k before it threw a rod and put a very large hole in the block. That was a 100k of farm work.
If there is no ridge and there are no cracks in it, don't let Herb your great guy talk you into boring it any more. On these SBC you can go .080 over, but you will have a huge chance of overheating! Be careful!
Now, I don't have as much experience as Herb, but I do have engine machining training from the era of that engine and I do have lots experience with engines of that era from the farm. It has been my hands on experience that a SBC from that era bored out to .080 9 times out of 10 will over heat.
Good luck with your engine. From your pics, ( I have no idea about the measurements) you should be able to get away with just honing it out and using new pistons if you choose and new rings and bearings on a freshly ground crank, (if the crank has not already been turned) and a decent cam and be done with it.
That engine probably does not have the claimed 42k on it. Maybe since the rebuild, but not total.
Mel
If there is no ridge and there are no cracks in it, don't let Herb your great guy talk you into boring it any more. On these SBC you can go .080 over, but you will have a huge chance of overheating! Be careful!
Now, I don't have as much experience as Herb, but I do have engine machining training from the era of that engine and I do have lots experience with engines of that era from the farm. It has been my hands on experience that a SBC from that era bored out to .080 9 times out of 10 will over heat.
Good luck with your engine. From your pics, ( I have no idea about the measurements) you should be able to get away with just honing it out and using new pistons if you choose and new rings and bearings on a freshly ground crank, (if the crank has not already been turned) and a decent cam and be done with it.
That engine probably does not have the claimed 42k on it. Maybe since the rebuild, but not total.
Mel
Dne'
Well-Known Member
a cylinder measurement
No doubt Mel! regarding the milage~ the pic below I took of my measurment of one cylinder, again no ridge, pistons came out easily. Yes, hone and get on with it! this is slowing me down! Just got back from my cardiologist, time for a nuclear stress test!~ I'm looking forward to that! :barf1
ok, now I'm heading to Herbs~ ; )
No doubt Mel! regarding the milage~ the pic below I took of my measurment of one cylinder, again no ridge, pistons came out easily. Yes, hone and get on with it! this is slowing me down! Just got back from my cardiologist, time for a nuclear stress test!~ I'm looking forward to that! :barf1
ok, now I'm heading to Herbs~ ; )
Ponyman66
Yak, yak, yak
Dne' if that pic of the caliper is your bore dimension, looks more like .050 over then .060 over! The extra .0025 can easily be attributed to cylinder wall wear. Of course, I could be full of BS too!! LOL
BTW, I'm sure your mechanic knows this already, but once the pistons are out the bore needs to be measured in several points from top to bottom. This will give the bore taper. Generally, the dimension at the bottom of the bore will give the true overbore dimension as there's normally no cylinder wall wear down there. If there's little to no taper (and no lip as you stated), you should easily be able to get by with a deglazing of the bores and new rings. Also make sure you switch from those god awful Chevy o-rings they used as valve stem seals over to the Ford style umbrella seals. Good luck with it!
p.s. I've seen Romancing the Stone several times....but it's been YEARS ago! When you mentioned it, I recalled the little mule reference. :thu
BTW, I'm sure your mechanic knows this already, but once the pistons are out the bore needs to be measured in several points from top to bottom. This will give the bore taper. Generally, the dimension at the bottom of the bore will give the true overbore dimension as there's normally no cylinder wall wear down there. If there's little to no taper (and no lip as you stated), you should easily be able to get by with a deglazing of the bores and new rings. Also make sure you switch from those god awful Chevy o-rings they used as valve stem seals over to the Ford style umbrella seals. Good luck with it!
p.s. I've seen Romancing the Stone several times....but it's been YEARS ago! When you mentioned it, I recalled the little mule reference. :thu
guruatbol
Always on vacation!
It does look like if the block is not cracked or has zero hairline cracks and all the bores measure out to the same numbers, you will be able to run a hone through it. We used to use a dingleball style with some Marvel Mystery oil and get a nice cross hatch pattern.
Re: your stress test....I have had one. It is not bad. You just can't eat anything the night before and they shoot you up with glow in the dark stuff. then you get to walk on the treadmill. Then is the wait while you eat some jello and drink some water. I got a false positive and had to have an angiogram in order for them to be sure there was not any blockages. Six years later I ended up under the knife, now all is well! I feel like I did when I was 20....
So just have fun with it and don't let them scare you if you have to go for the angiogram....they go in through the femoral artery and do their thing. You sleep through it and they give you some great drugs....
Mel
Re: your stress test....I have had one. It is not bad. You just can't eat anything the night before and they shoot you up with glow in the dark stuff. then you get to walk on the treadmill. Then is the wait while you eat some jello and drink some water. I got a false positive and had to have an angiogram in order for them to be sure there was not any blockages. Six years later I ended up under the knife, now all is well! I feel like I did when I was 20....
So just have fun with it and don't let them scare you if you have to go for the angiogram....they go in through the femoral artery and do their thing. You sleep through it and they give you some great drugs....
Mel
Dne'
Well-Known Member
I'll get to the truck someday! lol
Ponyman said:
"Also make sure you switch from those god awful Chevy o-rings they used as valve stem seals over to the Ford style umbrella seals. Good luck with it!"
I noticed the little 0-rings you're speaking of on the 230 I6 head, I removed one valve and noticed the o ring. I thought to myself at that time, what a geeky way to seal the valve. I'll definitely bring that up to Herb about the umbrella seals (he should know!!)
: )
************************************************************************
guruatblol, or Mel ; )
IF it hadn't been for all the rust in the water passages, I may have attempted doing the deglazing, but I figured I'd better let Herb do the checking, plus I want a squeaky clean block and heads, overall, I want a squeaky clean engine!
Now as for this nuclear stress test next Tuesday. I was at the cardiologist the other day and he did the EKG and listend to my heart; said it sounds good(but so did my impala engine!lol) until we get inside of it. Neat analogy (engines and humans being kind of similar!). I just have this chest pain behind my sternum, mainly under circumstances like when the muffler fell of of the impala, then I jumped out of my Baja and went to get the floor jack out, then my heart started pounding painfully, or another example is I was breaking the lugnuts loose on the impala with a long breaker bar, it took a lot of efffort, then the pain came back again! So, I'll just take it easy and wait patiently for the test.
Didn't get to take the parts to Herb yesterday, I had another doc appointment! If I could just go a weak without seeing a doctor!! however, my brother called; He owns a coin operated car wash, brush type, and someone had stolen 4 of the drain grates; you know where the water drains while you're washing you vehicle. The police said there's some guy going around stealing these grates and obviously selling them as scrap! They run about 130 per grate and luckily there's a place here in Houston that has them. For my brother, it puts his carwash out of business and could be a really bad hazard! So we're just trying to think of a way to prevent the grates from being stolen again!
Ok, time to freshen up, then off to Herbs! life is just full of little ups n downs! ; )
Ponyman said:
"Also make sure you switch from those god awful Chevy o-rings they used as valve stem seals over to the Ford style umbrella seals. Good luck with it!"
I noticed the little 0-rings you're speaking of on the 230 I6 head, I removed one valve and noticed the o ring. I thought to myself at that time, what a geeky way to seal the valve. I'll definitely bring that up to Herb about the umbrella seals (he should know!!)
: )
************************************************************************
guruatblol, or Mel ; )
IF it hadn't been for all the rust in the water passages, I may have attempted doing the deglazing, but I figured I'd better let Herb do the checking, plus I want a squeaky clean block and heads, overall, I want a squeaky clean engine!
Now as for this nuclear stress test next Tuesday. I was at the cardiologist the other day and he did the EKG and listend to my heart; said it sounds good(but so did my impala engine!lol) until we get inside of it. Neat analogy (engines and humans being kind of similar!). I just have this chest pain behind my sternum, mainly under circumstances like when the muffler fell of of the impala, then I jumped out of my Baja and went to get the floor jack out, then my heart started pounding painfully, or another example is I was breaking the lugnuts loose on the impala with a long breaker bar, it took a lot of efffort, then the pain came back again! So, I'll just take it easy and wait patiently for the test.
Didn't get to take the parts to Herb yesterday, I had another doc appointment! If I could just go a weak without seeing a doctor!! however, my brother called; He owns a coin operated car wash, brush type, and someone had stolen 4 of the drain grates; you know where the water drains while you're washing you vehicle. The police said there's some guy going around stealing these grates and obviously selling them as scrap! They run about 130 per grate and luckily there's a place here in Houston that has them. For my brother, it puts his carwash out of business and could be a really bad hazard! So we're just trying to think of a way to prevent the grates from being stolen again!
Ok, time to freshen up, then off to Herbs! life is just full of little ups n downs! ; )
Ponyman66
Yak, yak, yak
Dne' wish you best of luck with the doc. Sorry to hear about your brother getting hit by the scum bags. I know it's a little O/T, but we're having the same problem here...and have been dealing with it for over a year now. The sad thing is what they can get at the scrappers is only pennies on the pound...they're cast and not worth much! The people that have to replace them though don't get any break on the replacement cost! Around here they're not only taking drain grates, but manhole covers too. :rant
p.s. I LOVE locking these scumbags up! :thu
p.s. I LOVE locking these scumbags up! :thu
Dne'
Well-Known Member
health, engines and trannies! ; )
Gee Ponyman, I don't know how I missed your response!
Anyway, Robo, my brother is still locating some of the odball sized grates for the carwash. The ones that he has purchased so far (2'x 2') run about 135.oo per thing! They have to be able to withstand a vehicles weight of course. We did look at some other alterantives at a steel yard, but the metal looked rusty and not worth their asking price plus further fabrication would be necessary. So he went with the cast one like he had before. Those original grates had been there 40 years! now we're just trying to figure out how to make them stealproof!
Anyway, had my stress test, will be a week before the results come in. The lady doing my sonogram or ECG said my symptoms sound like more of GERD than a heart problem(off the record of course). I'm bascially a health nut and pisses me off that I'd get GERD! lol However, I'd rather have GERD than a stenotic artery in the heart requiring a stent.. So hurry up and wait.
As for my engine~ I went to Herbs place, he was just finishig up a 302 for a 66 stang, beautiful engine! My engine stuff is still at the machine shop where I dropped off my oil pan,valve covers ,and exhaust manifolds to be cleaned. I'll call the tranny shop tomorrow and see if they can come out to get my transmission(no hurry). So kind of at a standstill right now. I'm looking at the Impala for what else I can get off of it before calling the guy I bought it from to come and get it. Perhaps the tilt steering column, and bench seat. but the seat would need upholstery~ but I've other ideas for a seat(3rd row Tahoe seat with built in shoulder seat harnesess) I was considering the under the dash wiring harness, but a friend said I'd be better off with a Painless wiring system. I imagine getting the wiring harness out would be a pita! If I go with the Impala tilt column, I hope aftermarket steering wheels are available!
; )
UPdate, just in! Herb called and said we can begin assembly of my engine this weekend! They did have to turn the crank~ he said it was borderline to keep it the way it was~ that's fine! He said we should get it together easily in a day! I've got a bucket of bolts n nuts he said he can put in his bolt cleaning machine and they'll come out like new or slightly used! lol He was asking me what color~ I hate being caught on the spot with a question like this, but I said chevy orange unless I decide otherwise by Saturday.
Gee Ponyman, I don't know how I missed your response!
Anyway, Robo, my brother is still locating some of the odball sized grates for the carwash. The ones that he has purchased so far (2'x 2') run about 135.oo per thing! They have to be able to withstand a vehicles weight of course. We did look at some other alterantives at a steel yard, but the metal looked rusty and not worth their asking price plus further fabrication would be necessary. So he went with the cast one like he had before. Those original grates had been there 40 years! now we're just trying to figure out how to make them stealproof!
Anyway, had my stress test, will be a week before the results come in. The lady doing my sonogram or ECG said my symptoms sound like more of GERD than a heart problem(off the record of course). I'm bascially a health nut and pisses me off that I'd get GERD! lol However, I'd rather have GERD than a stenotic artery in the heart requiring a stent.. So hurry up and wait.
As for my engine~ I went to Herbs place, he was just finishig up a 302 for a 66 stang, beautiful engine! My engine stuff is still at the machine shop where I dropped off my oil pan,valve covers ,and exhaust manifolds to be cleaned. I'll call the tranny shop tomorrow and see if they can come out to get my transmission(no hurry). So kind of at a standstill right now. I'm looking at the Impala for what else I can get off of it before calling the guy I bought it from to come and get it. Perhaps the tilt steering column, and bench seat. but the seat would need upholstery~ but I've other ideas for a seat(3rd row Tahoe seat with built in shoulder seat harnesess) I was considering the under the dash wiring harness, but a friend said I'd be better off with a Painless wiring system. I imagine getting the wiring harness out would be a pita! If I go with the Impala tilt column, I hope aftermarket steering wheels are available!
; )
UPdate, just in! Herb called and said we can begin assembly of my engine this weekend! They did have to turn the crank~ he said it was borderline to keep it the way it was~ that's fine! He said we should get it together easily in a day! I've got a bucket of bolts n nuts he said he can put in his bolt cleaning machine and they'll come out like new or slightly used! lol He was asking me what color~ I hate being caught on the spot with a question like this, but I said chevy orange unless I decide otherwise by Saturday.
"Ponyman66" said:
I had the same thing a few years ago. I was having bad chest pains and thought I was having a heart attack everyday.
I went in for lots of tests. We also did the stomach scope and found out I had a Hiatal hernia too. I did get some disgusting pictures from that too. It turned out to be gerd causing the chest pains. I have always had it, but it had gotten worse and I had to up my medicine. I was pretty surprised that Gerd can cause such bad chest pains. :shrug
I hope all goes well for you with that.
I went in for lots of tests. We also did the stomach scope and found out I had a Hiatal hernia too. I did get some disgusting pictures from that too. It turned out to be gerd causing the chest pains. I have always had it, but it had gotten worse and I had to up my medicine. I was pretty surprised that Gerd can cause such bad chest pains. :shrug
I hope all goes well for you with that.
Dne'
Well-Known Member
decisions on engine bolt on stuff
Well, I didn't even follow any of my original plans so far! you know ,keep the motor stock to save money, mainly regarding the bolt on stuff, don't go crazy like I did on my stang~ ha! The engine should look very nice don't you agree? So all those nice stock brackets won't be used! I pretty much bought that Impala for nothing regarding saving money! I'm such a geek!
Anyway, it's not like I'm spending an enoumous amount of money compared to some folks. The intake is a Pro comp, only 120.oo and the Edelbrock carb or whatever carb~ I haven't decided on yet. This is at Herbs place~ he is not pushing things on me and he's selling me bolt ons for his cost or close to his cost. The valve covers in the pic are just for example. He has a friend that sells brackets to ANYTHING, so he's going to talk to him about a serpintine belt setup~ I've always wanted that kind of setup! If that doesn't pan out, then back to the idea of AC comp on the P side and the alt/ps on the D side. oh, I'm not even sure if I'll be using the exhaust manifolds from the Impala either and I had them blasted(but they look nice!).
PS: still waiting on results from the cardiologist
art
I guess while he has it, I may as well let him get for me and bolt on everything else(water pump, fuel pump, engine mounts, and whatever else).
Herb actually has a mini store/stocks valve covers, intakes, carb, etc., so he pulled the covers just to give me an idea, but I didn't like the black v covers, but he can order the polished aluiminum with the C and emblem on em.
Well, I didn't even follow any of my original plans so far! you know ,keep the motor stock to save money, mainly regarding the bolt on stuff, don't go crazy like I did on my stang~ ha! The engine should look very nice don't you agree? So all those nice stock brackets won't be used! I pretty much bought that Impala for nothing regarding saving money! I'm such a geek!
Anyway, it's not like I'm spending an enoumous amount of money compared to some folks. The intake is a Pro comp, only 120.oo and the Edelbrock carb or whatever carb~ I haven't decided on yet. This is at Herbs place~ he is not pushing things on me and he's selling me bolt ons for his cost or close to his cost. The valve covers in the pic are just for example. He has a friend that sells brackets to ANYTHING, so he's going to talk to him about a serpintine belt setup~ I've always wanted that kind of setup! If that doesn't pan out, then back to the idea of AC comp on the P side and the alt/ps on the D side. oh, I'm not even sure if I'll be using the exhaust manifolds from the Impala either and I had them blasted(but they look nice!).
PS: still waiting on results from the cardiologist
artI guess while he has it, I may as well let him get for me and bolt on everything else(water pump, fuel pump, engine mounts, and whatever else).
Herb actually has a mini store/stocks valve covers, intakes, carb, etc., so he pulled the covers just to give me an idea, but I didn't like the black v covers, but he can order the polished aluiminum with the C and emblem on em.
Dne'
Well-Known Member
Ok Rob~ I wrote the guy this morning, just one more time I thought I'd try for this grill. He called me and apologetically told me how busy he has been. He got the quote for shipping, so total will be about 300.oo, still quite a bit cheaper than a repop, plus it has a history to go with the truck! He did say it may need some bezels as the chrome is kind of peeling. I was going to take it all apart anyway to clean it up, replace lenses etc. Thank you again!! :wor
; ) dne'
; ) dne'
"66gt350" said:
Dne'
Well-Known Member
My engine rocks!
Herb's daughter brought my engine over a little while ago. unloaded it and put it on the engine stand. So, engine and tranny are done. Now for biting the bullet for the Ac so I can start figuring out all the bracket stuff! the power steering reservoir is beat to hell, so I guess I'll locate either a pump or maybe the reservoir. Then an alternator~ I won't be running an electric fan this time, so, not a concern right now. I guess I can get waterpump and install that. :roll oh, exhaust manifolds(not going with headers), I had the stock one blasted at the machine shop and the old studs removed and taped out~ uh, not sure about em though.
I"m hoping to get this dinosaur Impala out of my shop! It is so beastly ugly and takes up the garage, plus I want my stang back here! :yah
Herb's daughter brought my engine over a little while ago. unloaded it and put it on the engine stand. So, engine and tranny are done. Now for biting the bullet for the Ac so I can start figuring out all the bracket stuff! the power steering reservoir is beat to hell, so I guess I'll locate either a pump or maybe the reservoir. Then an alternator~ I won't be running an electric fan this time, so, not a concern right now. I guess I can get waterpump and install that. :roll oh, exhaust manifolds(not going with headers), I had the stock one blasted at the machine shop and the old studs removed and taped out~ uh, not sure about em though.
I"m hoping to get this dinosaur Impala out of my shop! It is so beastly ugly and takes up the garage, plus I want my stang back here! :yah
Very nice. Your moving quick on that truck.
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