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From total denial to rotisserie in one fell swoop!

66notch

66notch

Member
da-yam :shee

OK I finally broke down and bought a 66 coupe survivour thinking my 13 yr old son and i could start "getting at fixing it" a little at a time. It's old and a bit worn but a decent survivour so drive it a few seasons maybe put a little into it and.. yaaa right!

Found a guy that seems pretty trustworthy he's got a good rep with some folks I trust and works word of mouth. He's got a good shop booth and bake, dirty room, mechanical spot etc. and he lives on site. A pro but low overhead. He's going to do a scuff and splash to dress it up for my daughters grad... yaaa right... laughing my ass off. Ok Mustang nuts read between the lines, yup it's stripped to metal, going for the full monte, he's found gas axe seams and all kinds of stuff.

We knew there were issues but they were buried and wouldn't come out after a cheap splash for at least a year or two. That was supposed to be plenty of time to get back up to speed with the old gear-head crowd I once run with, again.. everyone... yaaa right.

So out of this tale i have a question. Since i haven't got all my ducks lined up and not up to speed on whats involved with a strip and we're going down to metal and eliminating the rust. Tell me what the pitfalls are at this stage.

The car is in the shop getting stripped down to metal will be painted and the underside coated with rhino liner hippo hide.

What must be done and what should I avoid in a nutshell? (Is that possible)

PS I'm looking at $15,000 all in. Meaning drove it there and will drive it out. Could save a few grand by bringing it home on a trailer and it does need some mechanical so thinking why pay to put it all back together? And I can do any mechanical (certified mercruiser mechanic some time ago) not tooled up for body jobs is why it's at a shop.

Damn this time last week I thought it was going to be a summer bang on toy. WTF?
 
OKay since you opened that can of worms........

Doin' the full resto uh? Well while its stripped check the cowl vents for rust through.
Rhino coating? Why? Paint it and take care of it. To me that stuff is like the old undercoating. Great as long as nothing got under it (water). If that happened then it just promoted rust.
If other damage is found...will you repair/bondo or replace with metal/welding?

What kind of resot are you doing? Restored to stock? Modded? Updated? Muscle?

Now for others to chime in.....
 
All I can say is if you can actually get someone to take it to bare metal, rotisserie level restore it and drive it home for 15 large...you have done VERY well.
 
Triple the time estimate and double the financial estimate and you might get close.
 
As much as I like the coupes.....putting the kind of money into it you will have to is not reasonable in today's market. The estimate needs to be written and spell out every item/thing to be done and what the finished product will be like....plus the time frame....plus what happens when it is not finished on time.
 
"Horseplay" said:
All I can say is if you can actually get someone to take it to bare metal, rotisserie level restore it and drive it home for 15 large...you have done VERY well.
Click to expand...

Actually I'm still shaking my head about the cost estimate (that's why I'm going for it, can't afford not to). But when I brought that up he assured me this is how he works, semi retired, low overhead.
Car actually was in pretty good shape, stripped already and the price is still the same after inspection. I feel like I just got caught with my hand in the cookie jar ffs. Woo-hoo. We will see, going in Monday and will make a game plan from here. Even if it pushes to 20K wtf still a deal and it's done!

Going to revisit the rhino hide idea, my thoughts are the same as yours KBMWRS.

As for it being a coupe and the investment won't match the market. :confu i'm planning on leaving it to my boy when I kick so he can sweat that one. :thu

 
I've got a suspicious feeling here and want some clarification.

Is this $15,000 driving out the door just for paint, or are you also getting suspension, brakes, drivetrain, interior, etc work too?

I have over $15,000 in parts in my fastback... a lot of them bought wholesale. Did all the work myself except the paint and body, which was billed at $50 per hour.

Like others have said, you need to have everything on a work order or the estimate is worthless. Brake lines are $100 a set, plus an hour or two to install them. If you want new brake lines, it needs to be on the work order. Etc, Etc, Etc.

Not trying to rain on your parade or anything, but seriously, any time you are paying for work like that, you need to be very specific or the price goes up quick from what you first thought.
 
Pictures to follow.

I hear you brothers. The "deal" remains to be seen. It's disassembled, stripped, metal on body and undercarriage, painted and undercoated, new gas line brakelines, frame rail connectors and clutch reassembled to rolling chassi. $15,000

New parts ( besides as already noted) include fenders and hood and headliner, interior will be painted while apart as well.

Sounds like a darn good price to me, honestly, I expect a few add ins to push it to 20k before all is said and done. Like a disc conversion, maybe stabilizer bars and other mods.
 
In answer to your initial question, the "while I'm at it....." scenario will be the biggest pitfall. Once you get in deep it's hard to not do a lot of small things that will show. I just finished a car with a friend of mine and after pushing the initial detailed and thorough budget up by 25%, the running joke was "I can't see that from my house........................" Seriously, this project was done with a very sharp pencil and nearly every time we thought a part could be reused, it really couldn't without standing out like a sore thumb. At the end of the day the car turned out great and he is very pleased but there is no denying the cost can be hard to contain if you want to do it right. Oh, and buy the fastener kits from AMK. If we included gas for the many trips to the hardware store for odd ball fasteners, we could have bought all the AMK kits and had money left over!!
 
"Horseplay" said:
All I can say is if you can actually get someone to take it to bare metal, rotisserie level restore it and drive it home for 15 large...you have done VERY well.
Click to expand...

I agree!!
 
Sigtauenus;
this deal at $15K includes disassembly, body, interior and underside (rotisserie) new metal, painted and coated. Reassembled. Any new parts or mechanical are on my account (add ins), so I need a clutch thats extra but install is part of the 15K deal because reassembly is part of the quote. It's a pretty solid unit so the body is pretty much sand and paint. The floors are coming out complete due to small patches are just too time consuming. leaf mounts need some work and have yet to see the cowls there are a few welds from previous fender work that need redoing but it's looking like a pretty solid quote.


Now for the add ins...


The pony is apart and when it goes back together, well out with the old and mods to the suspension...
Thinking about this configuration, any input as to results or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Front;
-monte carlo bar,
-1" or 1 1/16" sway bar (can't seem to dial in on this considering 1")
-shelby drop for caster
-1" lower (650# springs? or 540 do not want to cut springs, are lowering springs intact??) need some experienced advise here
-roller perches and pitman.
-disc brake conversion (seems to be a lot of options here any suggestions?)

Rear;
-under ride traction bars
-5/8 rear sway
-upgrade leaf springs (wtf is 4 1/2? is that the width or the number of leaf?)
-lowering blocks (or is there a better way than using blocks, kinda concerned about wheel hop even with the traction bars, just don't like blocks)

-gas adjustable shocks all around

-15" styled steel with low profile BFG (tire profile/size to suit the drop, concerned about rubbing)

hmm sounds like another $3500 ...yikes :wor :roul

hey if anyone has these parts for sale...
 
"66notch" said:
this deal at $15K includes disassembly, body, interior and underside (rotisserie) new metal, painted and coated. Reassembled. Any new parts or mechanical are on my account (add ins),
Click to expand...

I'd sell what you got and put the 15-20k in something else. For 20K you can buy a damn nice car that will hold its 20K value. You're gonna end up having closer to 30K in this car. I haven't seen your car and am assuming it's pretty much a basic coupe. Same thing I got. Think about it.....30K for ____________. In the end, it's your money.
 
"blue65coupe" said:
I'd sell what you got and put the 15-20k in something else. For 20K you can buy a damn nice car that will hold its 20K value. You're gonna end up having closer to 30K in this car. I haven't seen your car and am assuming it's pretty much a basic coupe. Same thing I got. Think about it.....30K for ____________. In the end, it's your money.
Click to expand...

In 78 I bought a 4 spd 68 fastback CS with a big block for $250 sold it for the same, in 88 I bought a 66GTA Fairlane for $2000 a cherry BB fairlane in the day was $7-8000 (4x) in 92 I bought a cherry 66 coupe for $4000 (4x a beater) in 2010 I bought a 66 survivor for $8000 (full resto market for 66 coupe about $30,000 (4x)), going to be into it for approx $40,000 all in. 20% over market today. So be it. Tomorrow it will sell for $45K, I think we're pretty good for value vs. investment.

Regardless, When my son sells this one after I'm dead he's going to make money, of that much I am certain.
 
"66notch" said:
Sigtauenus;
this deal at $15K includes disassembly, body, interior and underside (rotisserie) new metal, painted and coated. Reassembled. Any new parts or mechanical are on my account (add ins), so I need a clutch thats extra but install is part of the 15K deal because reassembly is part of the quote.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a great deal. Not ragging you here, just have been around the block myself a couple times and seen guys get surprised about what is included and what's not if it doesn't specify it on the work order.

Here's an example. If you drop off a car that has ratty exhaust, and the exhaust needs to come off to get to the floor, and you buy an exhaust kit with all new hangers and clamps, etc. Well, it may take the body guy 20 min to cut the rusty nuts off the bolts, saw the ratty exhaust into pieces, and have it sitting in a pile outside. When it comes time to reassemble, it may take him 3-4-5 hours (labor you are paying for) to put that new exhaust kit back on, particularly if it doesn't go right together like just about everything on these cars tends to be (no kit is simply bolt-on, everything needs massaged to fit right). So at $50 per hour, you're into it for $200 labor to install the exhaust. And you may think, well, the exhaust was taken off, it needs to go back on. Doesn't matter, labor is labor. Again, just an example.

For the sake of your own checkbook, I would be very, very specific about what "reassembly" includes as you cannot make assumptions. If it it were me, I'd yank the engine and trans together. If you have clutch work that needs done, that means more disassembly beyond what I had to do to get to the frame, and more time to put it back together. And if its my shop, I'm not doing that for free.
 
"sigtauenus" said:
Sounds like a great deal. Not ragging you here, just have been around the block myself a couple times and seen guys get surprised about what is included and what's not if it doesn't specify it on the work order.

Here's an example. If you drop off a car that has ratty exhaust, and the exhaust needs to come off to get to the floor, and you buy an exhaust kit with all new hangers and clamps, etc. Well, it may take the body guy 20 min to cut the rusty nuts off the bolts, saw the ratty exhaust into pieces, and have it sitting in a pile outside. When it comes time to reassemble, it may take him 3-4-5 hours (labor you are paying for) to put that new exhaust kit back on, particularly if it doesn't go right together like just about everything on these cars tends to be (no kit is simply bolt-on, everything needs massaged to fit right). So at $50 per hour, you're into it for $200 labor to install the exhaust. And you may think, well, the exhaust was taken off, it needs to go back on. Doesn't matter, labor is labor. Again, just an example.

For the sake of your own checkbook, I would be very, very specific about what "reassembly" includes as you cannot make assumptions. If it it were me, I'd yank the engine and trans together. If you have clutch work that needs done, that means more disassembly beyond what I had to do to get to the frame, and more time to put it back together. And if its my shop, I'm not doing that for free.
Click to expand...


You're absolutely right brother. I am paying for reassembly.

I know I'm in for some fiddle factor I will have some opportunity to pack it away in parts if it gets too complicated.

I'm thinking for $15K driving off in the old gear with new metal, paint and undercoat is still a pretty good deal.

We will see :steer
 
"66notch" said:
in 2010 I bought a 66 survivor for $8000 (full resto market for 66 coupe about $30,000 (4x)), going to be into it for approx $40,000 all in. 20% over market today. So be it. Tomorrow it will sell for $45K, I think we're pretty good for value vs. investment.

Regardless, When my son sells this one after I'm dead he's going to make money, of that much I am certain.
Click to expand...

I would think that if you have $20k into a coupe you can expect to pretty much never get your money back out of it. I've seen some really nice cars selling around here for less than $15k. There is one pretty nice moded car in my area that the guy is asking $15 or $16 for and it's been for sale for a long time now. I guess if he waits long enough he may eventually find someone that will give him that but it's taking a long while.

For $20k or less you can find a pretty nice convertible in my area.

Several years ago a car would get a lot more than they have been getting the last couple of years....market might come back eventually but I still don't really ever see anyone getting out even for even if they have $20k into a coupe. Back at the top of the market before the bottom fell out I was looking for a car. There was a local guy that sold a pretty darn nice coupe with fuel injected motor, etc for $15k. I had thought about looking at the car but didn't get there fast enough and later bought my car.

That said, I'd be lucky if I could break even on my Mustang even if the market comes back up some but I built it for me to drive and don't have any plans to sell it anytime soon...I enjoy the heck out of it and it's pretty darn nice and that's what really mattered to me.

I went another route with my Trans Am I just bought in November. Bought it running and driving for a really good deal at less than $7k and don't plan to do much too it $ wise other than things such as I fixed the air conditioning, fixed the power windows / locks, redid the front brakes / bearings and lots of other low budget things like replacing the leaking weather strip on the trunk. I may eventually go through the motor to boost up the horse power but right now it's not smoking and not knocking so I'll live with the low horse power. I also plan to put off fixing a few minor rust spots that are hard to even see if you don't know they are there and painting it as long as I can.
 
"66notch" said:
Tell me what the pitfalls are at this stage.
Click to expand...

"66notch" said:
In 78 I bought a 4 spd 68 fastback CS with a big block for $250 sold it for the same, in 88 I bought a 66GTA Fairlane for $2000 a cherry BB fairlane in the day was $7-8000 (4x) in 92 I bought a cherry 66 coupe for $4000 (4x a beater) in 2010 I bought a 66 survivor for $8000 (full resto market for 66 coupe about $30,000 (4x)), going to be into it for approx $40,000 all in. 20% over market today. So be it. Tomorrow it will sell for $45K, I think we're pretty good for value vs. investment.

Regardless, When my son sells this one after I'm dead he's going to make money, of that much I am certain.
Click to expand...


Like I said, it's your money. Obviously you have a better handle on market values/making money than I do but I know one thing for sure: I've got a coupe in damn good condition that I'll save you some hassle and sell you for 25K. I'll even deliver it.
 
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