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Cheap Chinese heads...UPDATE April '12: IT'S ALIVE AND RUNNING!!
- Thread starter GrabberOrange69
- Start date
art
GrabberOrange69
Troglodyte
Re: Cheap Chinese heads...UPDATE 12 Dec
Well, dad and I took the first look at them today. We pulled them apart for inspection, but haven't bolted them to the block yet, so there will be more learning to come. For now here's our assessment; we give them a "B". So far they look like they will do fine in a street engine, but I wouldn't recommend putting them with a serious race application without further machine work. Here goes:
All the valves popped in fine - we blued the ones that were suspect and they all passed the concentricity test. Dad likes to put the valve/seat contact closer to the edge of the valve and grinds the seat to 1/2 degree more to ensure that happens, but these were fine. The valves were stainless steel. The seats are hardened, but the exhaust is not stelite. Not a big deal.
Looking in the port I found the first thing I didn't like: the light spot in the port is sunlight coming through because the rocker stud holes go through to the intake port. Need to watch that when assembling and surely would drive you crazy looking for a vacuum leak or "where is my oil going and why does my engine smoke" troubleshooting. I plan to loctite the studs in.
The valve seals looked very nice, and the heads had steel shims to prevent the springs from chaffing the aluminum pocket. We could not find dad's spring pressure checker, but they look like your standard 110-120# at the seat single coil with a damper. They are topped by 1-piece valve retainers with hardened locks.
The single most troubling thing was the disparity in installed valve tip height between the intakes and exhausts - average .025". This was due to the seat install/grind not being held across the head. Not a big concern for a street cam with an adjustable valve train, but a bigger deal at high lift/rpm. You'd certainly have to square this away if you got serious to prevent eating a valve tip, and the difference in spring pressure (however that could be controlled with shims). :rant
The heads were straight across the face with a nice surface.
So far, I'll chalk it up as win for $595 to the door, but I still have 2 quarters of "football" to play before making the final call. 210cc is a big port! :thu
As a side, this is a photo of dad's current project; '68 Ranchero GT - the engine on the picker is a mild 289 with a vintage F4B intake. Cool.
Well, dad and I took the first look at them today. We pulled them apart for inspection, but haven't bolted them to the block yet, so there will be more learning to come. For now here's our assessment; we give them a "B". So far they look like they will do fine in a street engine, but I wouldn't recommend putting them with a serious race application without further machine work. Here goes:
All the valves popped in fine - we blued the ones that were suspect and they all passed the concentricity test. Dad likes to put the valve/seat contact closer to the edge of the valve and grinds the seat to 1/2 degree more to ensure that happens, but these were fine. The valves were stainless steel. The seats are hardened, but the exhaust is not stelite. Not a big deal.
Looking in the port I found the first thing I didn't like: the light spot in the port is sunlight coming through because the rocker stud holes go through to the intake port. Need to watch that when assembling and surely would drive you crazy looking for a vacuum leak or "where is my oil going and why does my engine smoke" troubleshooting. I plan to loctite the studs in.
The valve seals looked very nice, and the heads had steel shims to prevent the springs from chaffing the aluminum pocket. We could not find dad's spring pressure checker, but they look like your standard 110-120# at the seat single coil with a damper. They are topped by 1-piece valve retainers with hardened locks.
The single most troubling thing was the disparity in installed valve tip height between the intakes and exhausts - average .025". This was due to the seat install/grind not being held across the head. Not a big concern for a street cam with an adjustable valve train, but a bigger deal at high lift/rpm. You'd certainly have to square this away if you got serious to prevent eating a valve tip, and the difference in spring pressure (however that could be controlled with shims). :rant
The heads were straight across the face with a nice surface.
So far, I'll chalk it up as win for $595 to the door, but I still have 2 quarters of "football" to play before making the final call. 210cc is a big port! :thu
As a side, this is a photo of dad's current project; '68 Ranchero GT - the engine on the picker is a mild 289 with a vintage F4B intake. Cool.
70_Fastback
Hell Bent for Speed
Re: Cheap Chinese heads...UPDATE 12 Dec
Cool! Glad to hear positive results so far!
Cool! Glad to hear positive results so far!
Re: Cheap Chinese heads...UPDATE 12 Dec
I don't think you bought the Floo Tek heads, as I have a set and the exhausts are double drilled for different style headers, yours don't have the same holes as mine. Do you know what "brand" they are, or if they have any markings?
I bought a set of Floo Teks from Alex probably couple of years ago, and he assured me that they were from Australia. Emailed me every time and answered all my questions, but after reading this, I was just wondering how old is that email quote from him? I noticed shortly after I inquired, that he stopped listing them on his website, which got me wondering if maybe he found something else out about the Floo Teks and just stopped selling them. They are still in the original packaging as I have yet to start on my project FB, so I have no performance data to add! Keep posting, I'm curious too!
I don't think you bought the Floo Tek heads, as I have a set and the exhausts are double drilled for different style headers, yours don't have the same holes as mine. Do you know what "brand" they are, or if they have any markings?
I bought a set of Floo Teks from Alex probably couple of years ago, and he assured me that they were from Australia. Emailed me every time and answered all my questions, but after reading this, I was just wondering how old is that email quote from him? I noticed shortly after I inquired, that he stopped listing them on his website, which got me wondering if maybe he found something else out about the Floo Teks and just stopped selling them. They are still in the original packaging as I have yet to start on my project FB, so I have no performance data to add! Keep posting, I'm curious too!
GrabberOrange69
Troglodyte
Re: Cheap Chinese heads...UPDATE 12 Dec
They were listed as "PROCOMP REVISED PAIR" on FleaBay, and came in "ProComp" labeled boxes.
"ZFORCE" said:
They were listed as "PROCOMP REVISED PAIR" on FleaBay, and came in "ProComp" labeled boxes.
pprince
5F09C332634
Re: Cheap Chinese heads...UPDATE 12 Dec
That quote from Alex was from 2 years ago when the curfuffel went on at VMF.
Buying an inexpensive set of heads is like buying a cheap tool from Harbor Freight. You know you are not going to get a tool that will stand up to professional use.
I would put them on a mild street car but not on something I intended to beat on. If you want a better quality head you spend the money. If you want to go racing you get known quality castings and put in ARP studs, better quality springs, better retainers, better valves, etc. $600 vs $2000. There is no free lunch.
I am glad those heads checked out ok. The fear is always that you get junk that you just can't use.
That quote from Alex was from 2 years ago when the curfuffel went on at VMF.
Buying an inexpensive set of heads is like buying a cheap tool from Harbor Freight. You know you are not going to get a tool that will stand up to professional use.
I would put them on a mild street car but not on something I intended to beat on. If you want a better quality head you spend the money. If you want to go racing you get known quality castings and put in ARP studs, better quality springs, better retainers, better valves, etc. $600 vs $2000. There is no free lunch.
I am glad those heads checked out ok. The fear is always that you get junk that you just can't use.
GrabberOrange69
Troglodyte
Re: Cheap Chinese heads...UPDATE 12 Dec
They are going on a street application - not race.
"pprince" said:
They are going on a street application - not race.
Re: Cheap Chinese heads...UPDATE 12 Dec
Ya know just because it is from China does not make it junk right... Sure you can order a container load of cheap wrenches and sell them at harbor freight, but you can also spec out a quality part and pay more from the same place in China. With quality CNC machines becoming more and more prolific around the world all one needs is a good program, and the Chinese know how tosteal obtain those.
Ya know just because it is from China does not make it junk right... Sure you can order a container load of cheap wrenches and sell them at harbor freight, but you can also spec out a quality part and pay more from the same place in China. With quality CNC machines becoming more and more prolific around the world all one needs is a good program, and the Chinese know how to
Re: Cheap Chinese heads...UPDATE 12 Dec
I have seen China chain saw cases that when x-ray tested show un-melted nuts and bolts in the case casting, so it can happen. But, that was a china vendor, so it can be an issue.
But keep in mind that just because it's from China does not always mean it's junk. If the company that sourced the manufacturer in China wants quality materials that is what they can get, if they pay for it. It really depends on what the source vendor designated etc..
Dont forget that iPod/iPhone/iPad are cheap china junk. :roll
"B67FSTB" said:
I have seen China chain saw cases that when x-ray tested show un-melted nuts and bolts in the case casting, so it can happen. But, that was a china vendor, so it can be an issue.
But keep in mind that just because it's from China does not always mean it's junk. If the company that sourced the manufacturer in China wants quality materials that is what they can get, if they pay for it. It really depends on what the source vendor designated etc..
Dont forget that iPod/iPhone/iPad are cheap china junk. :roll
Re: Cheap Chinese heads...UPDATE 12 Dec
So, how much labor do you think a set of CNC heads really have? Do you think it's 10 hours...5 hours, more less?
I used to own a small motorcycle parts store and since I live just south of Indy I was able to go to the motorcycle manufacturers EXPO every year and I can tell you that you can get quality stuff from China and still spend less than the same part from Germany for example. You can also get crap and spend less if you are looking for a price point.
My point is dont discount something just because it is made in China. The PC you are using to read this was probably made in China, even your Mac most likely.
What I really wish is that we could buy products made in the USA that could compete price wise, and for that we need Tariffs!
Did you know glass marbles can be imported from China for less than the natural gas cost is for the American plant to make the same marble?
I also wish we could offer more vocational studies in high school to teach kids how to set up a manual lathe or mill to make a part, but thats a thread for the basement.
So, how much labor do you think a set of CNC heads really have? Do you think it's 10 hours...5 hours, more less?
I used to own a small motorcycle parts store and since I live just south of Indy I was able to go to the motorcycle manufacturers EXPO every year and I can tell you that you can get quality stuff from China and still spend less than the same part from Germany for example. You can also get crap and spend less if you are looking for a price point.
My point is dont discount something just because it is made in China. The PC you are using to read this was probably made in China, even your Mac most likely.
What I really wish is that we could buy products made in the USA that could compete price wise, and for that we need Tariffs!
Did you know glass marbles can be imported from China for less than the natural gas cost is for the American plant to make the same marble?
I also wish we could offer more vocational studies in high school to teach kids how to set up a manual lathe or mill to make a part, but thats a thread for the basement.