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Can't stand looking at it any longer

J

jonward786

Member
For as long as ive had the 68 it has had a horrible (in my eyes) lean in the rear end. i replaced the leafs several years ago and it didnt go away. swapped leafs to the opposite sides and no change. I really cannot stand to look at a 3/8" lean to the drivers side in the rear, and its undoubtedly worse when my 210 pounds sits in the car. ive read around that many many people have this lean issue with their classic mustang and most seem to just accept it as a manufacturing flaw and ignore it. I just cant do that, annoys the crap out of me.

My question is, im at the point now where i want to just put a spacer on the opposite side to even things out. I know its not ideal, but im wondering if its ok. And if i have a 3/8" discrepancy, will a 3/8" spacer be needed?

Thanks in advance.
 
Have you taken measurements to determine where the difference originates? Just slipping in a shim may fix the issue visually but isn't the ideal way to go about it IMHO.
 
I have always assumed the front was level. Out of curiosity i just ran out and measured both front heights. Passenger side front is about 1/4" lower than driver side front. And the plot thickens! So now i have a car whose front pass leans and whose rear driver leans. Almost like the whole car is twisted.

And as far as taking measurements, no i haven't really because i wouldn't know what places to measure to give me useful information. The only thing i noticed while laying under the car is that one of the shackles swings back further than the other. So naturally i loosened them both, bounced the car a bit, then tightened them back up to no avail.

What im trying to figure out here is whether or not this is just the product of a 40+ year old unibody car showing wear after years and years of only a driver sitting in the car. Or could this be something fixable, like a sway bar, or alignment or something of that nature.
 
My thinking is this...

Over 40+ years, body panels might have been replaced, accidents may have "adjusted" the unibody/frame rails. My first 65 have more of a fender flare on one quarter than the other due to a poor quarter panel replacement. Drove me nuts as one tire sat in further than the other.

I would park the car in the garage or on a flat hard surface and take a number of measurements at various points. Frame rail to ground at multiple points and compare left to right. Do the same from the top of the quarter wheel opening. Other reference points like tail light lenses, etc. Measure from bottom of unibody to rearend axle tubes on either side. Also measure from spring mounting points (front and rear) to ground on both sides. Somewhere you will find out where the difference(s) lie and then you will know what to do to correct it.
 
The very first thing I had done to my car when I bought it was have the frame straightened. It wasn't cheap but very worth it. I didn't wan't to do all that work on a car with frame issues.

I suggest getting it to a frame shop.
 
I probably will end up going to a frame shop eventually.

But in the meantime i did a little looking around in the front. One thing i noticed is the struts rods are not equal. Meaning one is tightened down more than the other by a good 1/8". Is this correct? Also noticed that the stabilizer link bolt (that attaches the sway bar to the lower arm) seems to be angled more on the side where the strut isnt as tight. Could this have anything to do with the lean or does the strut not affect anything other than steering alignment?
 
"jonward786" said:
I probably will end up going to a frame shop eventually.

But in the meantime i did a little looking around in the front. One thing i noticed is the struts rods are not equal. Meaning one is tightened down more than the other by a good 1/8". Is this correct? Also noticed that the stabilizer link bolt (that attaches the sway bar to the lower arm) seems to be angled more on the side where the strut isnt as tight. Could this have anything to do with the lean or does the strut not affect anything other than steering alignment?
Click to expand...

The strut rod adjustment affects the caster angle of the front wheel. It would not be out of the ordinary for them to differ a bit. You would have to have a pretty large cross caster measurement to cause a lean. You certainly would not drive it long if that was the case. It would probably pull like a sumbitch and be a completely miserable experience not to mention the front tire would likely rub on turns.
 
Have the front springs been replaced?

As far as measuring, it does not really matter what point you measure from as long as that point exists on both sides of the car. There are several points on the frame rails to measure from. I'll see if i an print you out a schematic.
 
If your truly that obsessed with getting your car level, then buy one of the many coilover kits on the market right now, and adjust to your liking.
 
Id prefer to solve the problem the correct way. If that means 700$ at a frame shop, fine. But until then, a spacer will do.
 
Well i talked to a local collision shop and set an appointment for this coming tuesday for them to use their frame machine to check this problem out.

In the meantime i went out and put the car on jack stands under the frame rails in 4 corners paying special attention to make sure i was supporting at the exact same place left to right. And yes the jack stands are all set to equal height left to right as well. With all four wheels off the ground i measured from the floor to the top of the fender as shown.

2TP2c.jpg

i8Xbg.jpg


Front Driver: 31.125" Rear Driver: 32.3125"
Front Pass: 30.5625" Rear Pass: 32.1875"
________________ _________________
Difference = 0.5625" Difference = 0.125"

Obviously the rear height differential is negligible. But the front is over 1/2" difference! What do we got here guys?? This seems like solid evidence that the frame is fucked up. What do you think?
 
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Based on the way they were assembled in the 60's it could have come from the factory that way.
 
Im curious if your using aftermarket fenders? When i was doing the body work on my coupe, one repo fenders wheel lip was 3/4" higher than the factory panel. It took me a while to realize what the problem was. I then got another from a different vendor and was closer. If my memory serves, it was within an eighth.
 
"jonward786" said:
But the front is over 1/2" difference! What do we got here guys?? This seems like solid evidence that the frame is fucked up. What do you think?
Click to expand...

The fenders alone could be the problem as Jake mentioned.

What I would do before bringing it to a frame shop is put the front jack stands as far forward on the front frame rails as possible, and then put the rear jackstands under the rear axle tubes.
Now measure along each front frame rail, along the rockers, rear torque boxes, and rear frame rails. If your body has a twist, you should see it as you move rearward. The reason for not putting the rear stands under the frame is you don't want to induce too much force on the rear frame that may tweak the frame straight and give you false measurements. Hopefully the rear springs are compliant enough to let the rear frame find it's home.

You could do the same in reverse... maybe put the front wheels on ramps, with jackstands under the rear frame / torque boxes and then take another set of meaurements.

Another thing to look at is with the front shocks removed and the car on the ground, measure the distance from the shock tower spring seat down to the spring perch. That distance should be equal on both sides. If one side is shorter, then that spring is likely weaker and that side will likely sit lower. Since the spring mounts about midway on the control arm, then the distance at the tire will be about double.

On the rear, measure from the top of the axle tube to the bottom of the frame rail. If everything is equal, then the issue isn't with your rear springs (provided the rear frame rails are equal).

it could just be a bum fender like Jake mentioned... I noticed when installing my fenders that little tweaks can change the where the fender opening sits.. Looking at your passenger side fender, it looks like the lower front has had some damage. If it is bent inward, it could potentially be sucking the fender lip downward a wee bit, whereas pulling it out some may raise the wheel lip some...

Something you might want to try is loosen the lower fender bolts and also the ones on the front of the radiator support, then lightly lift up on the wheel opening some... see if it comes up some without disturbing anything else. If it does move up some, tighten up the bolts and see if it looks any better.
 
With the car on jack stands like it is, try measuring from the ground to the frame rail up by the radiator support. If you're on a good flat floor, this will tell you if the frame is twisted or the front sheet metal is off. You gotta remember, the whole front end sheet metal is bolted on and is adjustable.
 
"RyanG85" said:
With the car on jack stands like it is, try measuring from the ground to the frame rail up by the radiator support. If you're on a good flat floor, this will tell you if the frame is twisted or the front sheet metal is off. You gotta remember, the whole front end sheet metal is bolted on and is adjustable.
Click to expand...

I just went out and did this and there is a 1/2" differential from ground to frame rail :sad

How do frame shops fix something like this? The machine just grab onto the frame somehow and yank it back into position?
 
All the sheet metal should be removed from the front of the car. The frame rack will mount at points similar to where you have the jack stands. They will measure everything up and figure out what is bent where and start pulling it back into spec.
 
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