Are all painters crooked? A semi-rant

[gotstang]

There is a "how did you choose your painter" over on VMF that got me thinking. The subject is probably a pet peeve of mine, as we've been screwed royally on EVERY PAINT JOB that we haven't done ourselves. It seems like even 15 years ago, all they would take was insurance jobs or high $$ work, which left you looking for a moonlighter, who would do it for a reasonable price but was probably an ex-con and would invariably rip you off. Most of the moonlighter jobs I've seen that looked good were done by the car owner's good buddy and the painter was in the habit of ripping off everyone but his buddies. This also applies to some "shops" around here...damn few of them are actually pros. :yikes

My answer to that question is that I can't possibly do any worse than the local yokels. I could tell stories for hours about these crooks.

Guy on VMF replied that all the DIYers did theirs over and over to get it right and that his first DIY project involved "much agony".

Now, we're pretty used to painting cars. Not with modern paint, but we can do it. Just did our first BC/CC job, boy was that...interesting. LOL

Personally, I'd rather DIY it and go through the hassle than get taken for thousands and/or end up with a hack job. The fact that DIYing it is cheaper is just an added bonus, IMO.

Is it just me?

 

[Anonymous]

While I have no experience with "painters", I did have a friend that had his own body/paint shop do the finish body work on my car. It took him many months to get it done, could I have done the same good job that he did...doubtful at the time.

I learned to paint many moons ago and have painted all of my cars, family and friends just to get better. IMO, it's the prep that takes skill, the painting is not that difficult.

 

[johnpro]

IMO, it's the prep that takes skill, the painting is not that difficult.

Exactly. The paint job on my '66 cost me $1,300. The one on my '69, $3,500. They are not going to win best paint at any show, but cars will hold their own next to the car that does.

I've just never been able to put much more than that into a paint job. I drive mine far too much and way too hard to have an expensive paint job on it. I had a chunk of something come up off of the freeway on the way to MITM 2 weekends ago. It got kicked up by the car in front of me (we won't mention SacBill's name) and ricocheted off my hood, leaving a 1" scratch down to the primer. I would be crying if I had one of these really expensive paint jobs on it.

Maybe I'm lucky to be in the area I am, but I know of 2 shops off of the top of my head that do quality work for not much money, and another one that does very detailed work but costs a lot more, but you get what you pay for with him.

I think the biggest problem people have with painters is not doing the research. You need to talk to people that have used the painter, and see the work they he puts out. If you haven't done both, you take your chances. I think people also have very unrealistic expectations from most painters. They want it fast, cheap, and perfect, which is an absolutely impossible combination.

 

[daveSanborn]

I think people also have very unrealistic expectations from most painters. They want it fast, cheap, and perfect, which is an absolutely impossible combination.

Very well said.

Knowing that my cheap butt would never shell out the $5k+ for a quality paint job, I hung out at my neighbors "collision center" business for about a year or so. I watched everyone working and learned a lot about body work/paint. This was over 10 years ago and I've painted at least a dozen vehicles since then.

My work isn't the fastest, nor is it perfect, but it's enough to satisfy me and it couldn't possibly be done any cheaper.

 

[JeffTepper]

To answer your point: "No, not all of them"

IMHO, some are inexperienced and have no idea how to actually make a profit when they bid a job, thereby underbidding and getting in upside down. (where is the incentive to do a good job when you are losing money on it?)
Others are like artists who consider their work "priceless" and generally have no idea how to budget their time to meet their customer's expectations.
Some just don't have any idea how to effectively do a quality job on time and on budget.
Sadly, some are indeed crooks.

The most one can do is thoroughly check out a painter's work before agreeing to hire him and spell out your expectations clearly up front......in writing.

 

[hivewax]

learned my lesson from going to a collision center body shop... terrible work and expensive. next time, body and paint by moi.

 

[gotstang]

I thought I added something else to my original post...guess I didn't. What I meant to add was that there is a guy around here that runs a good shop and will paint classic cars and such, but he won't start talking about paint for less than $8k and expects ~$13k as a final bill. One of his paint jobs would be about half of what I'll have in the completed car, but he's one of the few around here that would do it and probably the only one I'd think about trusting....the rest that would do it are the crooked moonlighters. All other the good guys are doing insurance work only.

 

[garner67]

If I had the space and more time, I'd like to try painting my own cars. Maybe someday.

When I researched painters, I found that I had 2 options... 1) hire a painter that would do the work for an "affordable" price that I did not fully trust (both quality & craftsmanship) or 2) hire a painter with a strong reputation, good references and actually see the work he's recently completed. I selected the 2nd option, but it came with a much higher price tag.

I'm really happy with the end results, and to me it was worth paying more to know the work would be done right and look fantastic. I'm building the car I always dreamt of as a kid, and I didn't want to cut corners on paint after all I've done.

Good painters earn their money though, because like JohnPro said, "they want it fast, cheap, and perfect, which is an absolutely impossible combination."

 

[daveSanborn]

he won't start talking about paint for less than $8k and expects ~$13k as a final bill.

That's not entirely unreasonable and is a LOT less than I would charge.

My current car has at least 250-300 hours of:

- last minute minor body work

- primer

- more minor imperfections/body work that I didn't even realize existed until after primer

- primer again

- a few even more minor touch up areas to fix

- removing ALL body panels to paint/clear their underside

- Tape off the car's shell to paint/clear the jambs and otherwise inaccessable areas once the car is re-assembled

- install ALL body panels/pieces that need to be on the car for the final shoot

- finally, after what seems like an eternity of work that will NEVER get done, paint/clear the car and any/all removed pieces

- assemble all painted pieces onto the car

- while assemblying the car realize that you forgot to paint the stone deflector or the headlight trim rings ('67-68 cars)

- wet sand and buff for a couple days



This is pretty much what it takes to paint a car and is assuming that all obvious repairs have already been made to any of the painted surfaces. Part of the big problem I see within the classic car hobby is that the novice car builder has been watching "Overhualing" or "Pimp my Ride" and is under the impression that a quality paint job is possible within six minutes of a one hour episode.... or in real world time.... 3-4 days of a 7 day episode. It's not. Show me any car that's been "overhauled" and I'll show you a POS that's been cobbled together to represent a polished turd. Chip Foose is a joke to be associated with this kind of work.

Heck, I consider myself pretty handy with a hammer and dolly and it took me almost an entire month of evenings and weekends to get my roof panel close enough just to primer.

300 labor hours x $30 an hour = $9k

More realistic shop labor rates are AT LEAST $55 an hour....

300 x 55 = $16.5k

Add in materials of AT LEAST $1k and you're at $17.5k, likely closer to $20k.


People in the hobby local to me ask me to do their body work and paint. I don't want to be a dickhead and tell them "no". Instead I tell them to bring me the car "next winter" with the first half $25k and they can pick up the car the following winter when they pay the other half. It works every time as no-one has yet taken me up on it.

 

[gotstang]

People in the hobby local to me ask me to do their body work and paint. I don't want to be a dickhead and tell them "no". Instead I tell them to bring me the car "next winter" with the first half $25k and they can pick up the car the following winter when they pay the other half. It works every time as no-one has yet taken me up on it.

:rofl That's pretty good. I agree too, after what a bitch it was to paint the font clip on my most recent project, there's no way in hell I would do it for someone else. It's too big of a pain in the ass. Plus, the green 3M painter's tape tore a chunk out of the cheap crap BC/CC so I have to paint it AGAIN anyway (3rd try LOL ). There goes another quart of materials...but hey, its only money. :doh

It just kills me when people recommend "find someone that will do it for you budget" to which I would add "and get screwed". Seems to me, it's DIY or pay up.

 

[hivewax]

if you like the rat rod look, just rattle can it flat black. pretty easy there. :cool

 

[Midlife]

They are either crooks or have been breathing in paint fumes too much.

There is not a single quality painter in the greater Panama City area that is reasonably priced (<$10k). I ended up going to someone outside of Mobile, AL that was recommended by Matt Rosa (Ponderosa Mustang). It cost be $5500 and it was satisfactory.