Shelby drop and lowering spring

[67stang]

Just a curiosity, why SD shocks instead of Bilstein or Koni?

Well, I heard great things about these shocks and it seems I get the best bang for my buck on these shocks. With three of them already installed the car feels firm but with a slight give. Not harsh. Feels great! Pretty happy so far with them. They had a package deal I think these performance ones were like 130 for all 4.


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[guruatbol]

Ok, you won't notice the drop until you drive it and it settles.

Mine didn't seem like much until it settled. Once it settles you'll have to align it again.

Mel

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[Horseplay]

Ok, you won't notice the drop until you drive it and it settles.

Mine didn't seem like much until it settled. Once it settles you'll have to align it again.

Nothing is going to "settle" and change the mechanically fixed points that set camber, caster and toe...unless you fail to tighten things to spec because you're a weak armed lassy like . What settles is the coil spring itself, potentially. In extreme cases, you might have to go back and make alignment adjustment to re-position the wheel if clearance becomes an issue because the body moved as the spring compressed (settled) but that usually isn't a reality. Putting the springs in and then bouncing the suspension pretty good a number of times by hand to help the spring seat itself before you loosen things up to do the alignment aids in eliminating any "settlement".

 

[guruatbol]

I was trying to keep it simple. Thus the term "Settle" besides I forgot the technical term from my alignment classes from the early 80s.

If memory serves me, yes the geometry will change as the spring compresses and decompresses.

So for a true accurate alignment you have to make sure the ride height is where it is going to be. ie settled.

Please feel free to correct me, but I do remember an old 35mm film I watched in the eighties showed the geometry of the front tires changing as bumps in a road was simulated. The second scene was animated showing the lines on the axis of the wheel and outer edges of the tires and how they changes as the suspension was moving.

No they won't change in relation to each other but the camber will change as spring is compressed or decompresses. So if your spring is decompressed when you align it and then compresses your camber will change, right.

Am I remembering this wrong? It has been a lot of years.

Mel

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[67stang]

I was trying to keep it simple. Thus the term "Settle" besides I forgot the technical term from my alignment classes from the early 80s.

If memory serves me, yes the geometry will change as the spring compresses and decompresses.

So for a true accurate alignment you have to make sure the ride height is where it is going to be. ie settled.

Please feel free to correct me, but I do remember an old 35mm film I watched in the eighties showed the geometry of the front tires changing as bumps in a road was simulated. The second scene was animated showing the lines on the axis of the wheel and outer edges of the tires and how they changes as the suspension was moving.

No they won't change in relation to each other but the camber will change as spring is compressed or decompresses. So if your spring is decompressed when you align it and then compresses your camber will change, right.

Am I remembering this wrong? It has been a lot of years.

Mel

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Curious. After I complete everything, including alignment and if I think my ride height is still to high, can I cut off a half a coil with a hot saw? Or is that a bad idea


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[guruatbol]

You could cut them. Both the springs I removed and the springs I have in my 67 were cut. I did not cut them and it is not my preferred way to lower the suspension.

You do not want to get the spring too hot and do not cool them with anything other than time.

I have not done much in the way of suspension since 1983 or so. So I could be all wrong.

Mel

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[Horseplay]

For clarity sake I am not a suspension guru by any stretch, just understand the premise of the mechanics.

Caster is the vertical relationship of the upper and lower ball joints which sets the angle, if you will, of the spindle. Coil spring has no affect here. Camber is the angle (top to bottom) the tire sits when mounted to the car. This is set buy the lengths of the connecting links (UCA and LCA). Again, not affected by the coil spring in the classic mustang suspension design. Where "change" can occur is during suspension travel as the while assembly moves up and down. This movement has the same affect as shortening or lengthening the control arms, in a sense which will cause the wheel camber to alter throughout the full travel. This is why you set camber during the alignment process to accommodate.

Yes, you can cut the coil to lower the body ride height but you should hold off doing so until having driven the car a bit to make sure it "settles" to ride height. Unless you are going for a really "low and tucked" look, using a lowering spring to start eliminates the need to cut.

 

[guruatbol]

For clarity sake I am not a suspension guru by any stretch, just understand the premise of the mechanics.

Caster is the vertical relationship of the upper and lower ball joints which sets the angle, if you will, of the spindle. Coil spring has no affect here. Camber is the angle (top to bottom) the tire sits when mounted to the car. This is set buy the lengths of the connecting links (UCA and LCA). Again, not affected by the coil spring in the classic mustang suspension design. Where "change" can occur is during suspension travel as the while assembly moves up and down. This movement has the same affect as shortening or lengthening the control arms, in a sense which will cause the wheel camber to alter throughout the full travel. This is why you set camber during the alignment process to accommodate.

Yes, you can cut the coil to lower the body ride height but you should hold off doing so until having driven the car a bit to make sure it "settles" to ride height. Unless you are going for a really "low and tucked" look, using a lowering spring to start eliminates the need to cut.

Thank you, my memory is rusty after nearly 40 years.

Mel

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[67stang]

For clarity sake I am not a suspension guru by any stretch, just understand the premise of the mechanics.

Caster is the vertical relationship of the upper and lower ball joints which sets the angle, if you will, of the spindle. Coil spring has no affect here. Camber is the angle (top to bottom) the tire sits when mounted to the car. This is set buy the lengths of the connecting links (UCA and LCA). Again, not affected by the coil spring in the classic mustang suspension design. Where "change" can occur is during suspension travel as the while assembly moves up and down. This movement has the same affect as shortening or lengthening the control arms, in a sense which will cause the wheel camber to alter throughout the full travel. This is why you set camber during the alignment process to accommodate.

Yes, you can cut the coil to lower the body ride height but you should hold off doing so until having driven the car a bit to make sure it "settles" to ride height. Unless you are going for a really "low and tucked" look, using a lowering spring to start eliminates the need to cut.

I should have measure the body height before I did anything. I only measured the wheel gap between the tire and wheel well. I did put in the 1 inch lowering springs, just kind of surprised that so far with the Shelby drop and 1 inch lowering spring that I still have a 2 inch gap in the wheel well. So it dropped about 1/2. I would have thought I would drop at least an inch. I keep you guys posted after I install everything and do an alignment


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[Horseplay]

You might yet see more of a drop as the springs settle in. Bouncing the front end either by hand or simply driving will help this to happen. The work you are doing is all about better driving performance anyway. When the dust clears and you find you still want the front to be lower you can cut the springs a bit. Word of caution though. A little bit goes a long way when cutting springs.

 

[kb3]

You might yet see more of a drop as the springs settle in. Bouncing the front end either by hand or simply driving will help this to happen. The work you are doing is all about better driving performance anyway. When the dust clears and you find you still want the front to be lower you can cut the springs a bit. Word of caution though. A little bit goes a long way when cutting springs.

Not that it is a true apples to apples comparison, but we just installed lowering springs in the boy's 03 Mach. Once dropped on the ground there was no noticeable difference, after a good drive around town, the drop then showed. It does take a bit to "settle" the suspension.

 

[Starfury]

Camber IS affected by suspension ride height. The UCAs and LCAs are different lengths, so as the suspension moves, the camber changes. This is Particularly true after you drop the UCA mounting points.

 

[Horseplay]

Camber IS affected by suspension ride height. The UCAs and LCAs are different lengths, so as the suspension moves, the camber changes. This is Particularly true after you drop the UCA mounting points.

Yeah, I covered that. Alignment is set when the car is stationary and the set-up takes into consideration how camber will change during suspension operation. The question was about would alignment need adjustment (correction) after the newly installed suspension had "settled" and the discussion was in regard to the fact that the only "settling" that happens relates to the coil spring which WILL NOT affect alignment.
To be clear, "ride height" does NOT affect camber either. Cutting a coil spring to lower the body and close the gap between fender and wheel doesn't change anything in regards to suspension alignment (unless this somehow changes the spring rate). If you change position of a control arm from the stock location (like the Arning drop) that WILL change things as you suggest but that was also covered many pages back.

 

[tarafied1]

Not sure if you read my entire thread. I have only done the right side: drop springs/shocks/Shelby drop/roller perches/. But I noticed I needed new upper control arms. But I decided to finish the job to see how it sits. I did take out an 1/8 shim on both the front and back. Right now they are equally spaced. I think with one each :1/8,1/16,1/32.

So now I'm waiting for my upper control arms before I go back in.

If I need more +caster without making anymore adjustment to the rod would I add a front shim? Or remove a back shim? Or am I ass backward again.




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I may have missed something skimming through this thread. 67 and up are not supposed to have shims in the UCA. It's all done with the strut rod and eccentric cam on the lower. Here is a good article on how to do alignments on post 66. http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...set-the-alignment-on-1967-1973-ford-mustangs/

 

[guruatbol]

I may have missed something skimming through this thread. 67 and up are not supposed to have shims in the UCA. It's all done with the strut rod and eccentric cam on the lower. Here is a good article on how to do alignments on post 66. http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...set-the-alignment-on-1967-1973-ford-mustangs/

I've read that, but since he had shims, I concluded it was supposed to have them.

I would like to know for sure which is correct.

Mel

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[tarafied1]

Mel, I reread the thread posts, I see he had some shims to begin with. Also there was some confusion by posts here even on the use of shims on 67 and up. Just to clarify, 67's and up do not use shims on the UCA. If you need them, something is wrong.

 

[67stang]

Mel, I reread the thread posts, I see he had some shims to begin with. Also there was some confusion by posts here even on the use of shims on 67 and up. Just to clarify, 67's and up do not use shims on the UCA. If you need them, something is wrong.

Interesting, I will see what happens when I remove them. I'll keep you guys posted


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[tarafied1]

Interesting, I will see what happens when I remove them. I'll keep you guys posted


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hopefully you can get all the adjustment you need with the strut rod and LCA cam. I'm guessing that at some point whoever did the alignment didn't know this and not that something is bent.
I have the roller perches, the Arning drop and the eccentric eliminators as well as a roller idler arm and springs all from ORP and I used the ORP alignment specs too. I had a local Firestone shop do the alignment. They let me be in the shop and "supervise" or watch. I also got the print out. I told the shop manager what I needed/wanted up front and he was willing to work with me. I did later cut half a coil off the springs to lower it a bit more.

 

[67stang]

hopefully you can get all the adjustment you need with the strut rod and LCA cam. I'm guessing that at some point whoever did the alignment didn't know this and not that something is bent.
I have the roller perches, the Arning drop and the eccentric eliminators as well as a roller idler arm and springs all from ORP and I used the ORP alignment specs too. I had a local Firestone shop do the alignment. They let me be in the shop and "supervise" or watch. I also got the print out. I told the shop manager what I needed/wanted up front and he was willing to work with me. I did later cut half a coil off the springs to lower it a bit more.
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Nice!! Stang! I'm doing the alignment myself it seems easier then messing with some of the local shops. What size tires are you running? Front and back the same? Your stance looks good. You have power steering? If so do you ever have a problem with the rack and pinion hitting the ground?

Also what did you do with the back?


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[tarafied1]

Thanks. I have 275/40/17's on the rear with a 17x9.5 wheel. The front is 16x7 wheel with 205/45/16's. a little small but need to clear the front air dam.


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