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RRS Rack and Pinion 1971 1973 Mustang - Bolt On

M

mustang7173

Member
Good Day to all,

Has anybody installed one of these RRS's Rack and Pinion kits? Compared to TCP's kit, this looks like a true bolt on.

71-73 Mustang

rrs-usa.com rrs-usa.com

It would be nice to eliminate the 50 year old steering system.

mustang7173
 
Looks insanely expensive to me, to be honest. You can improve the stock front suspension and steering for a small fraction of that coin and have a car that handles like a new sportscar.
 
Hello horseplay,

Yes it is expensive! So one replaces the front suspension with all new TCP upper, lower control arms and the coil over. Still would have a 50 year old steering system! I have rebuilt the entire front steering along with rebuilt quick steer Saginaw box! Just wondering! I am looking into the bump steer since I have the front end lowered 1 inch!
Thought?
 
I can only speak to 65/66 from experience but if one upgrades the standard bits, as I have, I can tell you the car handles as well as (or better) than a 2014 GT. In may case that meant stock style upper and lowers but rollerized with bearings. Adjustable strut rods. Stiffer, lowering coil springs and a decent shock. Arning drop. For steering I went with the Borgeson power box and a tweaked for lower pressure Saginaw style pump. Roller bearing idler arm. Big sway bar. And lastly a Baer bumpsteer set-up. I guess I should also include fully welded in subframe connectors from TinMan which insert into the front frame rail and are basically 2" box tubing formed to ride along the floor pan. Fully welded to the floor, the car is as solid as any full frame vehicle.

I never drove this particular car until is was completely done. I can compare it to others I've owned and it is night and day. I can drive it in way deeper than I probably ever should and it never fails to hold fast. I have never had a single bad experience behind the wheel and I push it hard. No bump steer or anything ever. I would absolutely recommend the bump steer set-up to anyone that lowers their 65/66. If the geometry changes as much on a later model as it did with all I did to mine its a no brainer for the little money it takes.

FWIW, I spent a stupid amount of time agonizing over the path to take with my car and a rack was always going to be the way I went...until it wasn't. A few years and thousands of miles later I regret nothing about where I ended up.
 
A rack and pinion steering system is more "direct" as a conventional steering system but to notice the difference , you have to concentrate how the car handles in certain situations. So its good/recommended for racing conditions.
In daily driving a Borgeson setup with its 14:1 ratio is more than adequate to feel safe and have enough road feeling / steering responds.
Alot of mustangers who have the borgeson setup are pleased with it. As the people doing the EPAS setup.
All early mustang suffer from bump steer in certain conditions , so a bumpsteer kit is not a luxery to have.
IMHO.
 
Horseplay said:
I can only speak to 65/66 from experience but if one upgrades the standard bits, as I have, I can tell you the car handles as well as (or better) than a 2014 GT. In may case that meant stock style upper and lowers but rollerized with bearings. Adjustable strut rods. Stiffer, lowering coil springs and a decent shock. Arning drop. For steering I went with the Borgeson power box and a tweaked for lower pressure Saginaw style pump. Roller bearing idler arm. Big sway bar. And lastly a Baer bumpsteer set-up. I guess I should also include fully welded in subframe connectors from TinMan which insert into the front frame rail and are basically 2" box tubing formed to ride along the floor pan. Fully welded to the floor, the car is as solid as any full frame vehicle.

I never drove this particular car until is was completely done. I can compare it to others I've owned and it is night and day. I can drive it in way deeper than I probably ever should and it never fails to hold fast. I have never had a single bad experience behind the wheel and I push it hard. No bump steer or anything ever. I would absolutely recommend the bump steer set-up to anyone that lowers their 65/66. If the geometry changes as much on a later model as it did with all I did to mine its a no brainer for the little money it takes.

FWIW, I spent a stupid amount of time agonizing over the path to take with my car and a rack was always going to be the way I went...until it wasn't. A few years and thousands of miles later I regret nothing about where I ended up.
Click to expand...
Hello Horseplay, Very nice setup. My 1973 coupe has the TCP lower control, strut rods, eccentric eliminator, and rollerized spring perches installed. Eaton Detroit factory spring rate, 1 inch lowered springs, QA1 shocks, rebuilt Saginaw steering box with Corvette quick steer, and all new steering parts. Leaf springs are Eaton Detroit with factory rate with QA1 shocks. Also, I do have the welded sub frame connectors installed. That is one option all classic mustangs should have.

I mentioned the bump steer was due to my research and I read that with the slightly lowered front coil springs will alter the tie rod angle to the lower control arm.

Now, I believe some of my issue may be the 2001 Bullitt 17 x 8 with 245/45-17 tires that I have installed. The sidewalls on these tires are not as tall as the factory installed 14 and 15 inch tires.

With the quick steer and the 245/45-17 tires, it steers very quickly. I may look into new tires 245/55 or 245/60.

I have scheduled a new re-alignment for Friday.
 
B67FSTB said:
A rack and pinion steering system is more "direct" as a conventional steering system but to notice the difference , you have to concentrate how the car handles in certain situations. So its good/recommended for racing conditions.
In daily driving a Borgeson setup with its 14:1 ratio is more than adequate to feel safe and have enough road feeling / steering responds.
Alot of mustangers who have the borgeson setup are pleased with it. As the people doing the EPAS setup.
All early mustang suffer from bump steer in certain conditions , so a bumpsteer kit is not a luxery to have.
IMHO.
Click to expand...
Hello B67FSTB, I have a good friend with a 1968 coupe with the Borgeson setup. Much better than the stock power steering system. The Rack and Pinion looks like a nice modern update. Dang skippy expensive though. The Bump steer is not cheap. Plus, one needs to measure with the the bump steer gauge. Maybe the least or not an option right now.

Another alignment is in order. I will post update on the re-alignment once that is complete this Friday.

Appreciate the "Real World" experiences members bring to the Forum!

​

 
Buy the necessary tools and do your own alignment. It's not hard and you will do a better job than any shop. They are not set up for old cars and get thrown for a loop when they try. Even with the new adjustable bits you've added they still will not do as good a job as you could at home.

Get the Baer style bump steer kit. I want to say it was less than a couple hundred bucks. Easy to install and dial in. No special gauge required.

I have to say it. The 71-73 mustangs are the land yachts of the classic mustang world. Wider and heavier by far. What have you done in the rear suspension to help make it more nimble/stable. I have 4.5 leaf mid-eye springs coupled with a set of CalTracs to plant it. Was intending to fab up a rear sway bar originally but honestly see no need after driving it. Nothing special with the rear shocks either.
 
Horseplay said:
Get the Baer style bump steer kit. I want to say it was less than a couple hundred bucks. Easy to install and dial in. No special gauge required.
Click to expand...
Their instructions say the final adjustment has to be done by the alignment shop- is that why you say that no special gauge is required?
 
If anyone doesn't understand what "bump steer" is, you can find all kinds of info about it online. You can also find all kinds of information about how to correct it. It's all just really basic geometry. Basically, you just need to verify the intersecting points of a few lines as they correspond to your suspension and steering component mounting locations. If things are not correct, as a wheel moves up or down in its arc of travel it can cause unwanted "steering" movement.

Why do I say you can do it and don't need a tool? Because I did and you can too. It's not rocket science, especially if you buy a kit like from Baer. Follow the instructions and then verify the geometry. I used a jack, straight edges and string.

We all know its near impossible to find a shop capable of doing a good alignment on an old car like ours. Why would one think them able to diagnose let alone correctly adjust something like bump steer? If they can't hook their computer alignment bits onto your four wheels and have the computer tell them what to do they are lost.
 
Horseplay said:
If anyone doesn't understand what "bump steer" is, you can find all kinds of info about it online. You can also find all kinds of information about how to correct it. It's all just really basic geometry. Basically, you just need to verify the intersecting points of a few lines as they correspond to your suspension and steering component mounting locations. If things are not correct, as a wheel moves up or down in its arc of travel it can cause unwanted "steering" movement.

Why do I say you can do it and don't need a tool? Because I did and you can too. It's not rocket science, especially if you buy a kit like from Baer. Follow the instructions and then verify the geometry. I used a jack, straight edges and string.

We all know its near impossible to find a shop capable of doing a good alignment on an old car like ours. Why would one think them able to diagnose let alone correctly adjust something like bump steer? If they can't hook their computer alignment bits onto your four wheels and have the computer tell them what to do they are lost.
Click to expand...
I saw this clever video:
homemade bump steer gauge - Google Search
 
The theory may be right but I see at least one problem...That mirror...has to be mounted perpendicular ,verticaly and horizontal , towards the wheelhub.
No ? IMHO.
 
B67FSTB said:
The theory may be right but I see at least one problem...That mirror...has to be mounted perpendicular ,verticaly and horizontal , towards the wheelhub.
No ? IMHO.
Click to expand...
Well its a measurement of how much "toe in" or "toe out" he gets when the suspension goes through its travel, so that's why the laser is mounted parallel to the tire- it's tracking the actual movement of the tire in or out (steering right or left). When you think about it, it probably makes more sense to just mount the paper or cardboard on the garage door behind the car, and forget the mirror. My car is about 12-1/2 feet from the center line of the front wheels to the rear, so that gives you plenty of room, and the further the distance the more accurate the measurement of "toe".
I'm still trying to envision how Terry did this with string and straight edges. Kudos, that must be very tedious and exacting.
 
I tried to find the exact information I used that I had found online but haven't yet. I will post a link if I can find it. Again though, this is not nearly as complicated as it might seem. We are not designing and building a new front suspension and steering system.

First thing to do is understand the relationship between the upper and lower control arm mounting centerlines as they relate to the tie rod. The tie rod connecting point has to be line with the the same plane as the arm connections. You also have to establish the instant center of the front suspension control arms and steering link (this is where the string comes in). As long as you are using stock length arms and have reasonable camber adjusted using the Baer kit is pretty straightforward. Dial in the tie rod length with the provided billet connecting sleeve and then it's just a question of which spacers to use where when connecting the tie rod to the spindle. Essentially, raising or lowering the tie rod.
 
I know what bump steer is. I have 30yrs as a MB technician.
I mean when the mirror isn't perpendicular , the reading could have a fault.
Thats why I preferre to , like you said , mount the laser to the hub and read the result on your garage door.
Terry's starting point is to span a string exact in the middle under the car, front to back.
Find the middle position of the steeringbox's rotation ? (said right? ) . Position the steeringwheel at the "normal driving position" , center .
Lock the steeringwheel so it holds its position during regulation at the front wheels .
Regulate and check toe , caster and camber as often as needed so all measurements are whitin specs.
Thats for normal wheelalighment.
When this has been done properly , then its time to attack bumpsteer.
When the car sits on his own feet/tires , measure center wheel to top of wheelwell. Keep that figure in mind.
Remove tire and spring and bring center of hub back to that distance to the wheelwell.
Thats your starting point.
Mount the laser to the hub and move the hub up and down, as it would during normal road condition .
Now you can see how much bump steer you have and see what happens when you shimm your tie rods.
Sorry for my bad english explanation. Old dude from across the big pont who learned english on his own .
Terry , correct me if I am wrong. ;)
 
I know YOU know what bump steer is, Bruno.

I first did my front wheel alignment. To do this is not complicated just requires patience, the right tools and understanding of the concepts and adjustments. To start that process, I got my car level front to back, side to side. Shim under tires as needed as garage floors have a slope to them. Laid some masking tape out on the floor to mark reference points as I went along.

For the bump steer portion of the effort, first step was to find the instant center for both sides of the front suspension. That takes some ingenuity and effort as you can't simply sight a line down the upper control arm. To accomplish this I measured the center line height off the level ground of both the mounting point of the upper arm and its connecting point to the spindle. With that I could determine the angle of the arm relative to level ground. With that I could then run a line from each arm mounting point centerline at the determined angle to where they intersected. Marking it on a prop for future reference. Next another line was run from the tie rod connection to the spindle back to the aforementioned mark. To be correct, that string line needs to run through the point at which the inner tie rod connects. Using shims on the outer connection point dials it into place.

If you can get this right, as you raise or lower the wheel the arc of each line's travel will stay in sync and no bump steer!

I did not use any gauge or device on the hub/rotor to check how I did. I simply monitored it as I slowly jacked it up to watch for any undesired movement in the steering linkage. Having done the string/instant center/shim part right, there was very little in the expected range of suspension motion.

Thousands of miles later I am happy to report absolutely no tire wear indicating anything wrong with the alignment and zero issues with handling or steering. Never a hint of bump steer, etc.
 
Sitting here thinking about it now, I probably could have saved some time and my back by simply taking those few height measurements and done all the rest of the calculations at my desk and came up with the desired connecting point heights off the level ground height for the tie rod ends. Would have been easier than all the string lines, etc. Live and learn.
 
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