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Ignition issues- Update 4-19

M

mcconneje

Member
Yesterday, I was out driving the 67 and stopped to get gas. When I went to start the car after, it turned over but wouldn't start. The battery, an Optima which new last summer, quickly failed. I tried to jump it, but it only turned over a few times before it refused to turn over altogether.

I got it home and recharged the battery, nothing, not even a solenoid click.My meter says the battery has a 12.45 volt charge. I had the starter checked, and it is OK. I replaced the positive battery cable, cleaned all the connections, and nuttin. All the underdash fuses are OK, is there an inline fuse somewhere that could be blown? I never saw one, just a thought... I am getting power to the solenoid, according to my meter. I replaced the solenoid. Nothing.

I ordered an ignition switch component, and I will try that, but I really don't think that is the problem.

Does the cable that goes from the solenoid to the starter ever go bad? It looks in good shape. Would a bad ground connection from the battery to the engine block (the black cable) keep it from turning over? All I can figure is that or a bought a defective new solenoid. I have headlights, horn, and radio.

So now, my car will not turn over at all, it is just dead. I know that I will figure this out, to me it is part of the fun of learning to work on the car, but right now I am stumped. Any thoughts?
 
Re: Ignition issues

It's possible your starter died, the bendix may be jammed, or the cable is corroded so that there is not enough current to go to the starter itself. A battery of 12.45V is somewhat low...a fully charged battery should be 12.8V.
 
Re: Ignition issues

Yes, yes and yes...

Bad grounds can stop everything.

Does the engine turn over by hand. Hope it is not locked up......

You can jump around the solenoid to see that the starter turns and cranks the engine.

Cables and connections can go bad, loose, or dirty and give the results you have.

Sounds like you might have a problem in the wiring that activates the starter solenoid itself.
 
Re: Ignition issues

I would check the ground @ its end source. Had this happen on a friends work van exact same symptoms ,I clamped the - side of the cables to the starter underneath the van and it fired right up.
 
Re: Ignition issues

Does the car have a nuetral safety switch? Do you get 12v on the "S" post of the solenoid when you turn the key? Is the solenoid grounded well (remember it's a switch and if it's not grounded it no worky).
 
Re: Ignition issues

Check
ground from engine to min battery : OK (or connect the min from battery with motorblock by a startercable.
then bypass the plus of starter solenoid to the lead that goes to the starter for a second : starter should work.if not :starter defect.
When turning the key , 12 volt should come up at terminal "S" on starter solenoid.
If not , check neutral safety switch ( or bypass it ) or/and ignition switch.
Like Johnpro said : solenoid is grounded by its mounting bolts/screws.
 
Re: Ignition issues

OK, guys, here is more: I got the new ignition switch assembly, and as I expected, that was not the problem.

If I attach a jumper to the starter, and touch it to the positive post on the battery, the engine turns over.

If I attach a jumper to the starter, and touch it to the positive side of the solenoid, the engine turns over.

Wiring issue raise their ugly head. Thoughts? Suggestions?

Edit to add: If use two screwdrivers to jump the S and the I posts on the solenoid, it starts also.

If nothing else I am learning a lot about GTA on classic Mustangs. :$$$
 
Re: Ignition issues

"mcconneje" said:
OK, guys, here is more: I got the new ignition switch assembly, and as I expected, that was not the problem.

If I attach a jumper to the starter, and touch it to the positive post on the battery, the engine turns over.

If I attach a jumper to the starter, and touch it to the positive side of the solenoid, the engine turns over.

Wiring issue raise their ugly head. Thoughts? Suggestions?

Edit to add: If use two screwdrivers to jump the S and the I posts on the solenoid, it starts also.

If nothing else I am learning a lot about GTA on classic Mustangs. :$$$
Click to expand...



Jumping the S and I posts on the starter solenoid shouldn't result in the car starting..... not that I remember.

It sounds to me like you're not getting 12V switched from the ignition circuit. Turning the ignition key should send 12V to the starter solenoid. Double check that you're getting this. This signal could be interrupted by the Nuetral Safety Switch (NSS).... or where the NSS connects at the firewall pigtail. Either way your problem is a simple one, it's just a matter of finding out exactly what it is.
 
"AzPete" said:
Not sure auto or manual....but did you check the position of the shifter?
Click to expand...

I was going to ask that as well, but when he said it cranked, i would have assumed he found out it wasnt in park.
 
I have worked on the problem all day on the assumption that the problem is something simple that I just need to find. (I did check to make sure the shifter was in Park first thing this morning; that thought occurred to me at about 3AM.)

The thing is, the more I am learning about how the last guy who had my car has it wired, the more I am inclined to just pull the entire harness system and replace everything. I know that the harness(es) is kind of expensive, but that's OK. The guy has wires connected with wire nuts and electrical tape, some of the wires are burnt, he used lamp cord for some connections, and to top it off, when I went to get a new starter switch, I found out that there is a 68 starter assembly installed in my 67.

I have too much time and money (not to mention emotion) invested to have my car burn up because some yahoo was willing to just do the job good enough.

I am thinking I can do this...
 
Contact Midlife for cheaper harness deals.......he is on here someplace, just look for the sheep.
 
"mcconneje" said:
The thing is, the more I am learning about how the last guy who had my car has it wired, the more I am inclined to just pull the entire harness system and replace everything. I know that the harness(es) is kind of expensive, but that's OK. The guy has wires connected with wire nuts and electrical tape, some of the wires are burnt, he used lamp cord for some connections, and to top it off, when I went to get a new starter switch, I found out that there is a 68 starter assembly installed in my 67.

I have too much time and money (not to mention emotion) invested to have my car burn up because some yahoo was willing to just do the job good enough.

I am thinking I can do this...
Click to expand...

Yes, you can. I agree with getting in touch with Midlife. Lamp cords for connections just sounds hokey as hell. There's not any difference, though, in starters from '66 through at least '70 (probably through '73).
 
"mcconneje" said:
The guy has wires connected with wire nuts and electrical tape, some of the wires are burnt, he used lamp cord for some connections, and to top it off, when I went to get a new starter switch, I found out that there is a 68 starter assembly installed in my 67.
Click to expand...

By ignition switch, do you mean the switch you insert the key into? Those ignition switches and connectors varied by the following years:
1964.5-1967, 1968-1969, 1970, and 1971-1973.

See http://www.midlife66.com/harnesses/id.html for more details.
 
The guy has wires connected with wire nuts and electrical tape, some of the wires are burnt, he used lamp cord for some connections....
Click to expand...


Wow. This is a ticking time bomb.

I have too much time and money (not to mention emotion) invested to have my car burn up because some yahoo was willing to just do the job good enough.
Click to expand...


You're thinking clearly, which is a good.


get in touch with Midlife
Click to expand...

This is probably the best advice given based upon your particular circumstances. Some guys have "wiring problems" because there's a loose connection. This isn't you. You have a ~45 year old harness that sounds like it's operating on it's last leg. Pull the harness and send it into Randy. Turnaround time is fairly quick and you'll have 100% piece of mind knowing that your dash harness is in perfect working order.



Now, back to starting your car.

If you "jump" the solenoid (with a screwdriver, etc.) and the starter cranks, but the engine doesn't start..... in theory, the ONLY thing you'd need to do to get the car to start would be to bypass all of the ignition circuitry by placing a jumper wire between the POS BAT and the POS coil. A 4' piece of wire with alligator clips on it would get the job done. This doesn't solve your problem as it's bypassing all of your wiring, but at least then you'll know that the engine will still start, it's just a wiring problem somewhere.
 
I did that, Dave, and I had her started yesterday. Since she was running, I figured a little cruise around the neighborhood wouldn't hurt :).

I appreciate the advice, though. Even though I am going to replace the harness, and thereby fix this problem,hopefully, I would like to know what this little glitch is.
 
Understand that even though your harness has been butchered it may not be the culprit. Regardless, after hearing your description of the dash harness I wouldn't hesitate to get that taken care of. Once the harness has been refurbished it will be one less piece of the troubleshooting puzzle.
 
"mcconneje" said:
I would like to know what this little glitch is.
Click to expand...

"mcconneje" said:
The guy has wires connected with wire nuts and electrical tape, some of the wires are burnt, he used lamp cord for some connections, and to top it off, when I went to get a new starter switch, I found out that there is a 68 starter assembly installed in my 67.
Click to expand...


You answered that question. You will spend lots of time trying to sort out one problem because as you start, you will find 10 more. Just get a good harness and never look back.
 
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