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The Kavanaugh Accusation Saga

Discussion in 'Politics, Guns, and a can of Whoop Ass!' started by Horseplay, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. Horseplay

    Horseplay I Don't Care. Do you?

    I've been following this story for a while now trying to wrap my head around it. It really is quite intriguing to me not so much the substance but all the detail around it.

    First off, the "charge" is a drunk 17 year old boy at a high school booze party, in a room with a 15 year old girl on a bed, tried to remove her top and fondle her breasts. By the accusers own testimony that is as far as it got as a friend stepped in and made him stop. Traumatic for the girl? If she says so then I will agree. I would have to ask though why was she alone in the bedroom with the two boys in the first place. I know, "victim blaming" but its a valid question. Sounds to me like consensual necking where the boy wanted to keep going and the girl said stop. His friend stopped him, according to the girl. Hardly a crime in any sense. I also don't think it sounds like the kind of event that would cause decades of psychological trauma as is alleged. Sounds more like the stuff I saw at just about every teenage drinking party I ever went to in my illustrious high school career. But anyway...

    Here's my first thought and I think really the one that matters now. If that incident was 30 years ago (and let's just say it happened) what has he done since? Have there been any other allegations of inappropriate behavior? All I have EVER heard or read has been about what an honorable and decent man he is. So a moment of childhood drunk stupidity, the like of which has NEVER since repeated, should condemn him? I promise you, everyone reading this has something they did in their past that would toast them if judged similarly. We were all young and dumb and likely drunk at one point or another.

    Let's start with this talking point before we move on to questions about should they move forward with a vote, should she not take up the offer to tell her story. And after that we really need to talk about how this all came to light and the timing and obvious political intents involved.
  2. kb3

    kb3 Well-Known Member

    This whole process has made a mockery of our system. Starting with the initial protests/interruptions and then leading to this so called "bombshell" of an issue. I agree, even it he is guilty of being a drunken, horned up teenager, this is pretty common among teens. Most of us may have or could have been in the same situation given a few drinks and a pretty girl at age 17! I don't think this action taken 40 years ago should condemn a man for life. If, as you suggest, he has led an exemplary life since then, why should that one event even be brought into the picture. Hell Governor Brown is letting out 18 murders, serving life sentences, because he doesn't feel their past should define their future!
    RapidRabbit likes this.
  3. msell66

    msell66 Burning Fossil Fuels as Fast as Possible Donator

    It’s just politics. All sides do it. Right now, the same people calling for Kavenaugh’s head are trashing Keith Ellison’s accuser of abuse (of which she has actual proof). In time, the right will pull the same shit.

    What it is, is a waste of taxpayers money.

  4. Horseplay

    Horseplay I Don't Care. Do you?

    This was the first thing that came to my mind. We have a penal system designed (in theory) to punish for crimes but also to rehabilitate so the violators can reenter society and be productive members.

    Haven't we all been in a situation where we "lucked out" and vowed to never do that again? Had a learning moment that we used to prevent future occurrences? So even if he did go too far and try to grab a boob or even two if he spent the next almost 4 decades on the straight and narrow what is really being judged?
  5. kb3

    kb3 Well-Known Member

    Oh I fully agree that both sides play this game...what I don't understand is why we continue to elect these idiots.
  6. kb3

    kb3 Well-Known Member

    Being able to learn from out mistakes and altering our actions is what separates the good from the bad. I seriously doubt we could find any Supreme Court candidate that has a squeaky clean past. But we all know that is not really the issue at hand!
    msell66 likes this.
  7. Horseplay

    Horseplay I Don't Care. Do you?

    Of course it is all politics. And we all need to be honest about that. But in the middle of this one are some very real questions we all need to ask ourselves. The whole "me too" movement hit kind of a wall when it got out of control and people started to ask about when "she said" became enough to convict people. Don't get me wrong it is still alive and well just more people are getting brave enough to say "hold up a minute". Hope being that maybe common sense might just still be a thing.
    msell66 likes this.
  8. msell66

    msell66 Burning Fossil Fuels as Fast as Possible Donator

    Because most people don’t vote in the primaries. That’s the real opportunity to vote the bums out.

    Back to topic. I sure wouldn’t want what I did in my teens and early 20’s to come to light! I’m very different than that beginner smartass.

    tarafied1 likes this.
  9. Mach1Rider

    Mach1Rider Member

    Ok I will agree that the situation you set forth may have happened back then, So why not report it at the time even to the school or Pd?
    Now we are to take everything she says as truth, then answer me why she has deleted everything from facebook, twitter, to her bio on the college sites. Even the yearbooks have been taken offline.
    But the Dimwits say she must be believed! How about we send in the FBI to search thru the slush fund of congress that pays hush money from the taxpayers to cover up all the misconduct they do. Will they say that we must believe all of those women too? Or is that different like Bill and company.
    msell66 likes this.
  10. msell66

    msell66 Burning Fossil Fuels as Fast as Possible Donator

    The main thing here is the disregard for “innocent till proven guilty “. Would any single person want to be treated this way?

    Of course, to me, all politicians are corrupt off hand.

  11. kb3

    kb3 Well-Known Member

    40 years ago we didn't report every little thing that happened to us, hence this was never reported.
  12. Mach1Rider

    Mach1Rider Member

    if CNN says it your guilty...…….
  13. msell66

    msell66 Burning Fossil Fuels as Fast as Possible Donator

    Well, well.

    “New Jersey Democratic Sen. Cory Booker is facing accusations of hypocrisy over his calls to delay the confirmation vote of Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh amid sexual misconduct allegations, as he once admitted groping a friend without her consent in high school.”

  14. Midlife

    Midlife Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    In my mind, a person can change over the course of 30+ years. However, the nominee has stated quite clearly that this incident did not happen. If he continues to state that under oath, and there is evidence to the contrary, the candidate has lied and has committed perjury. Is that behavior wanted in a Supreme Court Justice? To me, that is the crux of this situation. I can forgive the man for teenage discretions.
    RapidRabbit and msell66 like this.
  15. Laurie S.

    Laurie S. Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    And, the accuser will not file a police report because she will face consequences of false reporting. That one alone makes me think. Plus, add in the fact that Kavanaugh's mother was the judge in the accuser's parents foreclosure case. Purely a stall.
  16. Horseplay

    Horseplay I Don't Care. Do you?

    I agree, Mid. If proven a liar he certainly shouldn't sit as a judge in any capacity. The thing is he can't be proven a liar in this case beyond one persons word against another. And in such a situation all anyone can really go on is a persons past actions and character. His is very clearly established to be of very high stature. Everything that has been made publicly known about the accusation (details, timing, characters involved, etc.) lends suspicion. Doesn't it? Even more, the accusing party is a bit hurt by known affiliations and derogatory public missives about Trump and the GOP.

    I particularly appreciate the demand to have the FBI investigate. Sounds so simpleton to me. She can't say when it happened in terms of even a date range. Can't say where it happened. She does say she recalls it was just her, he and his friend in the room. A friend who has already said it didn't happen. What exactly is ANY investigating body suppose to do? Beyond interviewing those three people (two who say it never happened) does anyone really think it can go anywhere? In my mind the ONLY thing that could turn up would be evidence indicating she is lying. I'm thinking they could find the notes or whatever I read about was claimed are recorded in her counselling sessions might have been altered or made-up, etc. I only say this because there is not other "evidence" that can be analyzed. All this leads me to believe this to be a political hit job attempt. A lame one at that. She may very well be telling the truth (or at least the truth as she remembers it. she was drinking and 15 over three decades ago) but the whole thing smells at this point.

    Anytime a person comes forward much later to cast dispersion on someone at a time they are in some prominent position always makes me wonder why they sat on it prior. Really harms credibility.
  17. Horseplay

    Horseplay I Don't Care. Do you?

    Very good point. The same reason I think she doesn't want to come before anyone in congress as she would likely be asked to be sworn in and could face a perjury charge.
  18. camachinist

    camachinist Member

    Grassley and the committee as of yesterday anyway haven't even seen the letter Ford wrote in unredacted form, sufficiently denied that by Feinstein, a member of the same committee, that Grassley wrote her a formal letter requesting it.

    https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/im...ssley to Feinstein - Original Ford Letter.pdf

    What irked me about the whole deal was all the outbursts in the hearings, and especially people heckling Kavanaugh's kids on the first day. Deplorable, to use a HRC term.
    msell66 likes this.
  19. Laurie S.

    Laurie S. Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    Also, the accuser claimed there was another woman there. That woman also has denied that anything happened.
  20. Horseplay

    Horseplay I Don't Care. Do you?

    Latest I have seen on this now is that the accuser's lawyer says she is willing to testify if the terms are "fair" (nothing I could find anywhere specifying what they would consider "fair"). Additionally, they said that even if she did come forward it could not happen on Monday. I have tried to view this in a favorable light every way I can but all that comes back is that this is clearly just more stall tactic. There was a comment about her safety but anytime I hear that its lawyer speak for delay. The Committee members have offered to come to her. Anywhere really. So this excuse of can't make Monday makes to logical sense. All she has to do is answer some basic questions which her accusation spurred. There is no preparation necessary to simply tell your story. To tell the truth. Is there?
    Laurie S. likes this.

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