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Betsy McCaughey Exposes Obama Healthcare Lies

I’ve heard it all before when it comes to change and progress in our country. We can’t free the slaves because they are like children and lack intelligence; we can’t let women vote because they might want to be more than wives and bearing children; we can’t do away with segregation because the white race will be mongrelized, etc., on and on. The opponents of change and progress always play to our fears and it always strikes a chord because of our inherent human weaknesses and flaws.

What I find so ironic about the above distortion is that health care reform will be at the expense of the elderly and Medicare. Yet, the far right, which provides the platform for this woman, was just as adamant 50 years ago that Medicare would take away our freedoms and turn us into socialists and eventually Marxists.

The debate is whether every American should have a right to health care, rather than just the opportunity based on luck, birth, or economic status. It’s a tough question that deserves serious thought and debate—something I have doubts that Rush Limbaugh and the like are interested in doing (and the same goes for those distorters on the far left.)
 
it's still scary dude, I don't think anyone is going to win. Change, yes, progress, we shall see...
 
I'm not entirely sure we need to have pictures of Nazis on our board let alone in a public forum.

I' know this statement will ruffle a few feathers here, but I can see why politics is off limits most places.
 
Jack, the biggest distortation is that every person (not necessarily American) has healthcare. What they want is "feel good" care. You walk into a publicly owned hospital ER and you're gonna get seen. Luckily I have great health insurance through my employer but if I didn't and did not feel the need to buy it...well...I'd consider myself screwed if something happened. My fault. We do need reform and need it badly. What we don't need is this overTAKE. I made mention, on the fly, a while back of a good start to reform.

1-overhaul Medicare...a powerchair cost $15,000 only because the gov't will pay it
2-ins. does not pay for routine doctors visits, gastric bypass, chiropractors, or psychologists...people won't abuse it when they have to pay and the costs will come down due to less foot traffic
3-LAWYERS AND LAWSUITS...FDA approves a drug and has possible side effects/warnings means you CANNOT sue if you get said side effect. Doctor tries to save your life and you still die, no suit. The only reason somebody should be able to sue is pure negligence...ie leaving scissors in your stomach.
4-Drug companies cannot advertise prescription drugs...why should we be able to ask for something when the doctor should know what we need?
5-PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS THE MAIN OVERHAUL...eat right and exercise. If I want to smoke my cigs I have to take responsibility for what might happen. Same goes for food, alcohol, you name it.
6-Illegals don't get crap. I don't mind "life saving care" if they are hauled into the ER. That happens now. No problem with that from a humanity standpoint. It stops there.

That's just a start. Bottom line is we agree there needs to be something done. A year ago everyone was bitching about BIG OIL. Why is everyone not bitching about BIG INS COMPANY? The only government program that exists that is not a total F'up is the military. Everyone has the "right" to healthcare. It comes down to if they are willing to pay for it or not. If they don't, too bad. Overhaul, yes. Overtake, no. The proper overhaul will bring the cost down to where everyone can afford it. You want to bring cost down real quick? Make everyone pay for their own. No more provided to you by any means. You know what happens? The ins. co. will find a way not to go out of business...I guarantee it.
 
"Sluggo" said:
I'm not entirely sure we need to have pictures of Nazis on our board let alone in a public forum.

I' know this statement will ruffle a few feathers here, but I can see why politics is off limits most places.
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Dude, if Gay Orangutan cars are allowed...........................

FWIW, thanks for letting the members talk here. I know we bitch and get "worked up" and it's good to let it out. I think it's been shown here that it does work for us to be able to do it and if someone doesn't like it, they don't have to respond. I think it's also been shown that disagreeing views can actually be discussed without personal attacks. I'll be the first to bitch and raise hell. I'll also be the first to have a serious debate about something.
 
My thought is that we do need to change things with health care.

Case in point my boys eye doctor. She doesn't take insurance, refuses to take insurance and refuses to deal with them. Without the overhead of all the medical billing specialist and otherwise keeping her overhead low we can easily afford to visit her office. We are not paying for all the red tape and middle men. And the funny thing is she is one of the best around and has a long waiting list to get it. Competition forces her to really stay on her game.

Now go ask any active military about Tri-care or any vet about the VA but be ready to get an ear full. A friend that was an Army Ranger and his wife were over last weekend and telling us some horror stories about when their son (a friend of my boys from school) was born about 8 years ago. The Tri-care doctor was so bad they finally had to complain enough they were allowed to go to a civilian doctor. Another friend of mine joined the Army in '57 and got out after several years in Nam in the late 60's. He will tell you outright he refuses to go to the VA for fear their incompetence will kill him.

Ask a pen pal of mine in England about what she thinks about their socialized medicine.

This big brother power grab by the democrats is not the answer to solving health care issues.

Term limits for Congress and removing the influence of special interest groups would be a better start to fixing our problems.
 
Tri Care...I can pick my own doctors if I do not want the ones the military suggest. Granted, not all doctors accept Tri Care as full payment, but more do than don't now. I have yet to have a problem with my medical or my wifes numerous problem areas. The military has gone all tri care with only the basics on base as a family practice type outfit.

My past experience with the VA was slow service based on the lack of doctors vs the number of patients. When I moved to an area that had a smaller Veteran population, I had no problem seeing the doctors.

Now, I am not saying this is the way to go for the country, just don't use the military as a blanket bad medical situation. There are good and bad in the non military section also. The type insurance a person has does not change a poor quality doctor.
 
"RustyRed" said:
Term limits for Congress and removing the influence of special interest groups would be a better start to fixing our problems.
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While I support term limits for Congress, I still can't get past the fact of "you vote for 'em, you deserve 'em". The problem is the other idiots that can decide what's right for me. If they have any say-so outside of their state, I should have a vote. Once again, if the same turds are kept in the bowl come 2010, people deserve what they get.
 
"RustyRed" said:
Case in point my boys eye doctor. She doesn't take insurance, refuses to take insurance and refuses to deal with them. Without the overhead of all the medical billing specialist and otherwise keeping her overhead low we can easily afford to visit her office. We are not paying for all the red tape and middle men. And the funny thing is she is one of the best around and has a long waiting list to get it. Competition forces her to really stay on her game.
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My point exactly. It's nice to have 2 dental visits a year paid for, but how much would it cost if no insurance plan covered this? A whole lot less than it supposedly does now.
 
The ironic thing is we originally took the boys to that particular eye doctor because they were having trouble with reading and we thought they might be having a "tracking" issue. This woman was the one that figured out they had dyslexia while none of the other doctors had figured it out. And what did she use to figure this out? An extremely simple test that took about 10 minutes and involved a really simple couple of things like a sheet of paper, a pencil and some flash cards....

My wife was having some chronic health problems a while back that are basically auto-immune related. The insurance doctor told her she had lupus (actually couldn't figure it out and labeled her "pre-lupus") and started her on some medicine that is more likely to cause you vision issues in the long term than cure anything and the problems did not improve. We found a new doctor (who again doesn't take insurance) but has really improved my wife's health using herbals and vitamins. This particular doctor works with a lot of autistic children and has amazing results. While she was there one time my wife mentioned the boys issues with asthma and having to do the nebulizer, etc. Said doctor told us to find some OPC-3 (http://www.opcguide.com/Isotonix_OPC-3.htm) and start giving it to the boys once a day. We did just that and in two weeks or less they went from having to do the nebulizer at least once a day to pretty much never having to use it now. The OPC-3 also got rid of some strange "ticks" the boys were starting to develop, go figure.

We have to pay for the OPC-3 out of pocket because insurance doesn't cover it. Imagine that, insurance doesn't cover the thing that actually works. But honestly, with our "co-pays" for prescription meds and the more frequent doctors visits when they were having asthma issues we actually come out ahead of the game paying for the herbals out of our own pocket.
 
"Jack1966" said:
The debate is whether every American should have a right to health care, rather than just the opportunity based on luck, birth, or economic status.
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my thoughts - we DO have access to some of the greatest health care in the world. my current job has pretty good health care - some friends have better - some have worse.

my brother is unemployed now. woke up a couple weeks ago with slurred speech and very lethargic. it turned out his doctors didnt pay attention and his meds interacted to the point he overdosed. he woke up a couple days later in ICU. they saved his life.

so someone with no health insurance had his life saved by doctors who didnt know him from Adam. that sounds like pretty damn good access to health care to me.

7 years ago my daughter was born almost 3 months premature. my insurance covered all but the neonatologist in the NICU (or about half a million bucks in charges). without her help i would not have a daughter today.

will it suck to see the bill - yup... but the argument is access to health care - not access to FREE health care. you can walk into most any ER today and get treated without having to pay to be seen.

the issue is not with the access - it is in other areas.
 
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion . . . regarding the negative comment on VA healthcare, let me offer different view (a majority of my 33 years as a fed was spent in the VA Medical system). The VA healthcare system is huge with some 190,000 employees, excluding interns, residents, and other contract personnel. It literally treats millions of patients per year. The majority of VA healthcare facilities earn commendation rather than acceptable status by JCAHO. The VA started shifting to electronic medical records back in the 1990s. Their national contracts for prescription drugs over the last 20 years has literally saved the taxpayers billions of dollars. The problem with the VA healthcare system is that it is underfunded and it is not allowed utilize its resources to provide healthcare to the greatest number of vets. For instance, if your a vet in Florida, Texas, or California you will experience long wait times or maybe no treatment at all if you are not service-connected. However, if you are a vet in the rust belt or rural area, you are more likely to receive treatment because there are far fewer vets there than in the sunbelt. Because of the politicians, the VA is unable to shift resources to where the vets are (much as the same problem in trying to close a military base). Also, the VA is not allowed to charge Medicare for treatment of over age 65 vets. You would be surprise at the number of vets who have Medicare but prefer to get their treatment at VA facilities.
 
"Jack1966" said:
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion . . . regarding the negative comment on VA healthcare, let me offer different view (a majority of my 33 years as a fed was spent in the VA Medical system). The VA healthcare system is huge with some 190,000 employees, excluding interns, residents, and other contract personnel. It literally treats millions of patients per year. The majority of VA healthcare facilities earn commendation rather than acceptable status by JCAHO. The VA started shifting to electronic medical records back in the 1990s. Their national contracts for prescription drugs over the last 20 years has literally saved the taxpayers billions of dollars. The problem with the VA healthcare system is that it is underfunded and it is not allowed utilize its resources to provide healthcare to the greatest number of vets. For instance, if your a vet in Florida, Texas, or California you will experience long wait times or maybe no treatment at all if you are not service-connected. However, if you are a vet in the rust belt or rural area, you are more likely to receive treatment because there are far fewer vets there than in the sunbelt. Because of the politicians, the VA is unable to shift resources to where the vets are (much as the same problem in trying to close a military base). Also, the VA is not allowed to charge Medicare for treatment of over age 65 vets. You would be surprise at the number of vets who have Medicare but prefer to get their treatment at VA facilities.
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I hear what you guys are saying but Government is always inefficient and underfunded. Been to the post office lately? I have to go to the post office later today to mail a tax return and I am already dreading it. I may say screw it and wait till the minute they open in the morning because that is the only time of day that the line isn't around the block.

So if I am a vet in an area where there are less vets then the service might be adequate at the moment. But what would happen if every single man, woman and child in that area suddenly became a vet? Welcome to nationalized health care...
 
"RustyRed" said:
So if I am a vet in an area where there are less vets then the service might be adequate at the moment. But what would happen if every single man, woman and child in that area suddenly became a vet? Welcome to nationalized health care...
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If that were to happen, wouldn't all the medical staff in the same area then become "govt. staff" at the same time, there by being able to cover the people just as they did? The entire town would not be covered by the Vets doctors only.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not for this crap, just commenting.
 
That would be the case in the short term.

But honestly, my guess is with Government pay the financial incentive wouldn't be there for a lot of the medical folks to put up with all the years of college, etc. Eventually, my guess is there would be a lot less doctors to go around. My cousin was a doctor in the Army at one time. But he simply used military service to help him get the education then did his required time to 'pay his debt' so to speak. He got out as fast as he could and now runs a small family practice.

One other thing I was thinking about this morning is that America is the leader in things such as cancer research. If it all gets nationalized I have to wonder how long that would be the case.
 
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