What to do... hmmm

[Kats66Pny]

Last night at the meet I had a guy offer to paint Gertrude when I get her to that stage. I'd have to do the body work, etc.. but he's shoot it for me. Now it makes me want to hurry and start on the body work so she can get painted. Right now Gertrude really doesn't need any major work done... unless you count installing interior, but I've noticed though that everyone seems to get paint done before doing the interior and installing the engine which makes sense. Well my engine/trans is already in, and there no interior. In some ways, I think it would make sense to hurry up and do body work and get her painted.

My original plan was fix the hole in engine bay, secure the battery (either in the engine bay or the trunk), finish the front & rear suspension (already replaced the front coil springs), replace windshield, then start on interior stuff so she looks good inside, then body work/paint. Doing all that means it will take a long while to finish since I'll have to slowly buy parts over time and could take me years to get it all done. If I skipped ahead to the body work and paint, atleast I'd have something do to everyday which would give me some sense of accomplishment. Unlike her just sitting in the garage and everyone once in a while drive her and do little things at a time.

I just don't know which way to go with this. What do you guys think? Should I just start grinding off the paint and start the body work or should I stick to my original plan?

[2ndgen]

Either way I would go for paint before doing the interior...

That said, I personally would try to do the major mechanicals and welding before paint (e.g. your battery tray and suspension work). You will learn a whole new set of swear words if you damage your new paint job working on that stuff!

For my son's car we did all the mechanical work, took off all the external trim pieces, stripped the interior, and then had it painted. This worked out very well for a typical paint job (e.g. the fenders were painted on the car).

My current project is a rotisserie restoration and paint was done first... and I live in fear of screwing up the paint job as I work on it!

Good luck,
-Rory

[Kats66Pny]

Paint before interior huh? I guess that makes sense. I know I have to put the headliner in before I install a new windshield. Atleast that's what I've read.

[RustyRed]

You certainly want to get all the metal work done before paint (i.e. your fender apron / battery tray, etc.).

Standard procedure at my buddy's restoration shop (on a full restoration) is strip it (interior, motor and all),  do any metal work, sand, paint then start reassembly.  Of course if they scratch something they can touch it up pretty easy....he has a '66 coupe in the shop right now that when it came in it looked rough.  They stripped it down, did a crap load of metal work now it's painted with no interior or windows at the moment.  It's going to be really pretty...it's dark grey with black ghost stripes.

[Kats66Pny]

That's what I was thinking... strip her down to bare metal so I can see what damage (how much bondo and rust) is under the paint. Then start welding in new metal if needed, replace body panels if there is too much bondo/rust, etc. I was thinking of doing it one section at a time. Fender one week, other fender next week, quarter panel one week, etc. That way I don't have any really long periods with being able to drive her. It wouldn't bother me if I drive her around with misc pieces of the body in primer and the rest still red.  :lol

I wish I had the ability to pull the motor out and clean up the engine bay, but I don't like the idea of not being able to drive her while I fix her up. Plus I'm worried she wouldn't run again.  :amaz I'd like to keep her on the road while I restore her. Not to mention my garage isn't all that big so it wouldn't be wise to remove too much at a time.

[tarafied1]

I made the mistake of doing the interior before paint. We (my wife) put in the headliner while the glass was out when doing bodywork. When I got it painted we pulled the glass all back out and she had to basically put the headliner back in again. You could paint around the glass/weather stripping but it's not the best way. Doesn't mean you can't clean-up/fix-up the dash, door panels, recover seats, etc. however. I would just save pulling the windshield and headliner until it ready to paint. It's also nice to paint the jams and trunk area with no carpet/seats, etc but that stuff comes back out pretty easy...

[sigtauenus]

That's what I was thinking... strip her down to bare metal so I can see what damage (how much bondo and rust) is under the paint. Then start welding in new metal if needed, replace body panels if there is too much bondo/rust, etc. I was thinking of doing it one section at a time. Fender one week, other fender next week, quarter panel one week, etc. That way I don't have any really long periods with being able to drive her. It wouldn't bother me if I drive her around with misc pieces of the body in primer and the rest still red.  :lol

I wish I had the ability to pull the motor out and clean up the engine bay, but I don't like the idea of not being able to drive her while I fix her up. Plus I'm worried she wouldn't run again.  :amaz I'd like to keep her on the road while I restore her. Not to mention my garage isn't all that big so it wouldn't be wise to remove too much at a time.

Some friends in the mustang club did a member's 67 vert engine bay in a couple weekends, so granted it was down for a week.  In two weekends they pulled the engine at the guys house who had a hoist, detailed the engine, stripped the engine bay, repainted it, sandblasted and painted all the pieces parts that were removed, and put everything back together.

I'm sure if you had it planned out, you could do the same with either a local club where you are at or with stangfix members.  Key is the engine hoist, blast cabinet, and all paint and parts on hand when you start.  You can also do a very nice detail job with the engine in the car, but there is actually more work involved working around it and masking everything off than if you just went ahead and pulled it out.

[rsalway]

I would want to remove the motor to do the aprons anyway. I would think that would be pretty hard to fix some of that without the motor removed.

[daveSanborn]

That's what I was thinking... strip her down to bare metal so I can see what damage (how much bondo and rust) is under the paint. Then start welding in new metal if needed, replace body panels if there is too much bondo/rust, etc. I was thinking of doing it one section at a time. Fender one week, other fender next week, quarter panel one week, etc. That way I don't have any really long periods with being able to drive her. It wouldn't bother me if I drive her around with misc pieces of the body in primer and the rest still red. 

I wish I had the ability to pull the motor out and clean up the engine bay, but I don't like the idea of not being able to drive her while I fix her up. Plus I'm worried she wouldn't run again.   I'd like to keep her on the road while I restore her. Not to mention my garage isn't all that big so it wouldn't be wise to remove too much at a time.

IMO, you're asking for your cake and want to eat it too.....  In your attempt to continue "driving the car while restoring it" you're not going to accomplish much more than making a bigger mess of things.  The "corrrect" way to restore a car is to completely disassemble, repair, and then re-assemble.  Anything less than this will cost you considerably more in both time and money.  If you're not ready to do it correctly, then don't do it all and just continue to drive the car as it is.

Plus... I remember you stated that your cowl is shot/rusted.  This repair alone requires everything around the cowl area to be removed.

[Kats66Pny]

I decided I'm not screwing around with the cowl. It can stay shot and rusted and leaky for all I care. Can't drive it in the rain anyway since windshield leaks as well and the wipers don't work and the driver window doesn't roll up.

[daveSanborn]

I decided I'm not screwing around with the cowl. It can stay shot and rusted and leaky for all I care. Can't drive it in the rain anyway since windshield leaks as well and the wipers don't work and the driver window doesn't roll up.

Okay.... so if I understand you correctly you will eventually..... replace the existing leaking WS with a new one, fix the WS wipers so that they are operational and fix the DS door window so that it rolls up, but then you still won't be able to drive in the rain w/o water pouring in through your rotted out cowl.  Understand that this is a unibody designed car and as such the cowl is an integral part of the strength of the overall car.  Specifically, the cowl creates a "box" for the frontend of the car to reduce torsional loading.  In other words, water leaking through the rotted metal of your cowl is really only an annoying side effect of a severely weakened chassis.

Realistically, the rotted cowl should be the first thing that's fixed on the car.... and to dismiss repairing the cowl while still using the word "restoration" is not a logical statement.

What you're really saying instead of "restoration" is... "I'd like to do some half-a$$ repairs to my car while still being able to drive it."

[Dne']

Seems like it should be kind of simple doesn't it Kat! lol You stand back and look at your stang, doesn't look like much to the little pony cars, but they can become an amazing amount of work, but we stick with it, and they start taking shape.  You're doing great and really getting into it! I love following your threads!

I'd ask myself, what is the most pressing thing right now that needs to be taken care of so you may progress? Are you going to repair the cowls? If not, just put the vinyl covers over them and go on! Do you expect your stang to be of show quality? or just something to drive around saying< "I did this, this is my Mustang, it's my project", I always throw in, "my long term project!" lol Even when completed there's always something to repair, fix, modify,etc. Cooler weather will soon be here and you'll be able to really get into your restoration!! ; )

I think If I were you, I'd have my engine compartment steam cleaned, then detail it as best I could. I believe there's room to replace your battery tray with the motor still in? You have a pretty neat engine, just clean it up and it will be just fine`unless you're having some mechanical issues and the engine has to come out.
dne'
                                                             *****************
My thought on my stang; I bought my car as a project, it will not be perfect(at least the body won't be). I said to myself, if the body can make a few years before it rusts back apart, that would be ok, but I'd always be looking for a mustang body(rolling chassis with a completed paint job) in need of a complete drivetrain and whatever else I could put into it from mine! It's my plan. It will not make me any money as none of our cars will probably not make us any profit!

[RustyRed]

I think If I were you, I'd have my engine compartment steam cleaned, then detail it as best I could. I believe there's room to replace your battery tray with the motor still in? You have a pretty neat engine, just clean it up and it will be just fine`unless you're having some mechanical issues and the engine has to come out.
dne'

There's room to replace the metal around the battery tray with the motor in the car...ask me how I know, LOL!

It's hard to know where to start but generally speaking paint would be further down the list for me but probably before going crazy with the interior.  I'd get the mechanical stuff and major body panels done first.

[AzPete]

How bad is the cowl......get some pics if you can.

[Kats66Pny]

I guess I can just take her apart and do a 'correct' resoration and repair every thing. Who cares if I have a drivable car. I mean really.. I have working legs. I can always walk a mile to the store and back.  :lol Heck might toss in a robbery or two as well to afford the repairs!  :vic

OMG Everytime I try to post it kicks back saying Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post  :ep Damn guys. LOL

[Kats66Pny]

How bad is the cowl......get some pics if you can.

I think I just hurt myself. Trying to take a picture under there, I had to lay upside down in the seat. I'm flexible but that was pushing it.

Could only get a shot of the RH side.

[70 StangMan]

I think I just hurt myself. Trying to take a picture under there, I had to lay upside down in the seat. I'm flexible but that was pushing it.

Could only get a shot of the RH side.

Yep, that's rusted all right.

[Kats66Pny]

The other side is the same, if not worse.

[AzPete]

Ouch..... I would really take the time to fix that. Small amounts could be patched easy.....that is major. Sounds like you could find some locals to help you. Enough help and planning and it does not take long.

By the way, just sticking the camera under the dash and shooting several pics at different angles normally gets the shot you need with out the flexibility problem.

[70 StangMan]

And getting worse by the day.  As they say "Rust never sleeps" whether it gets wet again or not. The damage is done and will continue to eat it away just like Cancer.

[Kats66Pny]

Ouch..... I would really take the time to fix that. Small amounts could be patched easy.....that is major. Sounds like you could find some locals to help you. Enough help and planning and it does not take long..

Minor repairs I could find help for. Major repairs like pulling out the engine, cowl repairs, etc can't seem to find any locals willing. So I'd have to take her in to a pro and have them do it which I can't afford.

[abrahamfh]

Turn that frown upside down Kat, you never know what will happen. (Maybe the CA StangFIX spirit will overcome the TX folks and show up at your doorstep one day uninvited with tools in hand)

We are all restricted by budgets and other curve balls life likes to throw at us, do what you can and slowly it will all be done before you even know it. At least you can drive your car.  :10

I only dream of the day I can drive mine.

[sigtauenus]

Kat,

While I think Dave was being a little overly harsh and dramatic, I agree with his sentiment.  

If you do any work to the outside of the car to make it look better, chances are sometime done the road you'll want to perhaps wash the car, which means water.  If you get to that point where you have carpet in the inside and wash the car, regardless if you drive in the rain, you will have wet carpet and soon after that rusty floors.  Wait too long to fix this and its not just floors, but toe boards, torque boxes and frame rails.  

Yes, it sucks, but the cowl must be fixed.  

Technically you can "freshen up" the car with a cheap paint job, freshen up the engine bay, throw some carpet and shiny new bumpers on the car and it will look decent, but you if you have any desire at all to keep this car, you will only be chasing your tail, as it won't be long before all that stuff you did needs done over or at least the parts associated removed and reinstalled again because a critical step wasn't completed beforehand.

If you know that up front, and are ok with that, then do what you need to do when you want to do it.  But know up front that if you put paint on the fenders that paint very well might get chipped or scratched taking said fenders off again to do the cowl, or a spark from grinding down a weld on the apron, the cowl, or the floors (which will eventually need done if not already) may burn a hole in the fresh paint.  

Nobody is saying you need to tear the car down to nothing and spend $30,000 on it.  BUT, there are some things you may want to make a priority to fix in a certain order because that will end up saving you time, money and effort further down the road.  

AND, you don't have to pay a shop for labor for this stuff either.  There are local hobbyists who will loan you a welder and all you need to do is buy gas and wire, and very likely some guys who will weld for you if you have the prep done, ie, the old parts removed and the new parts cut to fit and ready to weld on.

If you look at my build thread, I tell the story about driving my car for about 10 years and 100,000 miles on a $4000 restoration, if it was cheap or a shortcut I did it.  I was willing to do that at the time knowing it was a temporary fix and knowing I would have to do it right eventually.  Then you can see what was involved when I tore it down and did everything over again. 

[Kats66Pny]

I'm not really understanding why it would be considered a half-assed job if I do the car in sections and keep her somewhat drivable while I do it? If I strip down a fender to bare metal, repair any damage (or replace the whole thing if too bad), and primer it. Then do the other fender, the hood, cowl, quarter panels, trunk, roof. Not neccessarily in that order but basically move in sections around the car (repairing what needs repaired) until the whole car is in primer and then paint it instead of the whole car being apart with fenders off, trunk off, hood off, engine out and stripped down to metal.

[AzPete]

Yes, you can do the car by sections as you stated. Just be sure to get the problems fixed under the piece you are working on. Rear quarters also involve the rear fender wells, inner and outer. What about the frame rails.....how are they for rust? Check out a lot of places for problems before you start. The biggest problem is the cowl. You have to tear into the car for that major repair. That is the hard step as once you decide to go there, it is a major job.

Once the cowl is "fixed", the rest of the car could be done in sections.......unless the trunk floors need replaced along with a rear rail......and a floor board with a front rail.

Not trying to discourage you, just know the real bad areas before you start.