early 289 heads, good deal?

[tarafied1]

I'm contemplating building the low budget StangFix drag car out of the POS from Dave. I have a 1977 351W in a running motor home I can strip. I have an offer to trade one of my RC Monster Trucks for some 289 heads. The owner had them done for a 93 Mustang but never finished. He sold the car, here is his description and pics.

'66 289 Castings
Ported comparable to GT-40
1.84/1.54 Stainless 351 Valves
Milled 0.040
Hardened Keepers
Bronze Guides
3 Angle Valve Job
Stainless valve seats
Dual Tension Comp Cam Valve Springs.

[daveSanborn]

trade one of my RC Monster Trucks for some 289 heads

If I hadn't already sold that stuff off 35 years ago when scrounging for gas/weed money.... I'd surely make that trade now.

[tarafied1]

yeah, it's no Toys R Us RC but I hear ya! Its all custom made and has several hundred dollars worth of electronics. But I don't race anymore and it's just sitting on a shelf.




Do you think these heads would be good for a build or should I try to turn them into cash? I know a good set of aluminum heads would be best but these might be a good starting point. I don't plan to put a stroker or anything yet. Just want to get something together to play with first.

[daveSanborn]

It's probably just me, but the "toy" would have been gone a long time ago.

Back on point....  you mentioned the 351W from the motorhome and then the 289 heads.... what's it going to be?  If you're going with the 351, trade for the heads and then sell them, but the market's likely going to give you far less than a set of used aluminum heads are bringing.... figure $300.... unless you sit on them and wait for that "special buyer".

[Horseplay]

I'd hang onto the truck to sell as it sounds like you have a better chance getting more money for it than the 289 heads. You'd be better off even with a cheaper set of aluminum heads for a drag car. It takes a whole lot of work to get any decent flow numbers on those older heads. With aluminum you can get better flow and run higher compression which are the two things you'll want.

[camachinist]

Have him throw in the rocker arms and it's a deal. Those small chamber 66's will up the C/R on the W quite nicely with no other changes. You'll need to ream the bolt holes for 1/2" bolts/studs and may have to match up cooling/steam ports. Optimized, no reason why that combo can't run 10's in a manual transmission car. Those heads look exactly like the heads I always ran on the 289/302's I built back in the 70's and early 80's. In a time when everyone is running aluminum, be different.

Now, if you can trade the RC car for some aluminum heads, that would definitely be tempting....

All this assumes trades are preferable because the project is asset rich and cash poor. If other, disregard. Good luck.

[silverblueBP]

In a time when everyone is running aluminum, be different.

I like the way Pat thinks. Those are almost like the heads on my 289. The diff is 1.5" ex valves, beehive springs and I only milled them .010". They're ported as far as I dare and they flow real well. It's fun to be at the track and answer the questions of what new high tech parts I'm running. The faces are always funny when I tell them 1966 technology and parts!

[camachinist]

Watch any 289/302 powered stock or and see the potential of iron heads. That said, technology has gifted us with new designs, new materials and wonderful cost-efficiencies.

 OP, I did read right about you wanting to run these heads on a '77 stock stroke 351W, yes?

[tarafied1]

yes, the 351W is bone stock. That will be the basis of the engine build. The project right now is "cheap" so I plan to rebuild the 351 short block but not buy an expensive stroker kit. It has 150K+ so boring it and new pistons are part of the plan. It will be NA too, no blower so I'd like to raise the CR. He did up the offer to include the roller rockers. I have tried to sell the RC stuff on eBay and it's just not been a good economy for "TOYS" as Dave call them. The RC guys are hurting too. I think I'm gonna go for it. My first engine build up I used a set of early 289 heads also. It ran pretty strong. The early 66 289 heads have a 55cm chamber? Milled .040" what CR can I expect with flat top pistons in a 77 351W short block? Does the 77 351W have a tall deck? I know the smog motor 460's after 72 raised the deck and dished the pistons to drop CR. Don't know about the Windsor. Thanks

[tarafied1]

BTW the car will be a 67 coupe. I'm picking up another body and a C4 from John and plan to combine them into at least a solid shell. It will be purpose built for the track so no interior, window regulators, etc. Again it's going to be super low budget. Whatever I can trade for or buy cheap and donations excepted! The 351W currently has a C6 but the C4 is lighter so I will sell the C6. Since it's low budget the engine won't be radical, I'll shave weight where I can. Any other recommendations for the engine build, cam, intake, carb?

[Horseplay]

Craig,

You can easily get high compression with those early heads but you also can run into detonation issues fairly easily too. That's the main reason I was pushing you toward aluminum. You need to make sure the chambers are massaged, etc. to promote good swirl and flow or you will have issues if you bump up the pressure.
Way back when I used to run like heads with the old TRW pop-ups. In days before boost compression was the way to make the power. With today's aluminum heads and cam technology you can do much better. Aluminum alone is generally considered good for a full point of compression increase or more without problems.

All that said, if he throws in the rollers too that would be hard to pass up.

[tarafied1]

thanks, yes I am well aware of detonation! My first build had high compression and I had to AV gas. I have been thinking about setting this car up for E85, it runs cooler and is over 100 octane. The car will not see street duty so I'm not worried about drive-abilty. I'm building it for 1/8th mile too if that matters, I figured I could gear it to death and still be okay in the 1/8th.

[camachinist]

The later block is 9.500". I'd go for the deal. You should be able to get 10.3 or more CR out of a 19cc dished piston. Flat-tops over 11:1. Check your coil bind and run a modest camshaft , a low cost 10" converter and 5.43's , presuming automatic.

Set up for 1/4 mile, the race car generally ran 7.20's/30's in the 1/8 at 96mph with the W in it. That's with 5.14's and a 30" tall tire. Main difference is a bunch more compression, but it's still a real mild engine. I'd have no problem running 5.67's for 1/8 mile duty.

[tarafied1]

thanks, yes it will have a C4 auto. Two reasons, its cheaper and I'm a beginner so I will be more consistent (I hope).

[camachinist]

Running more gear and a tighter converter will make it easier on the trans, as well as ease cylinder pressure-related detonation potentials. I found I had to do more frequent trans maintenance when I was running a 8" converter and brake versus a 10" converter and no brake, all else being equal. Part of the problem back in the old days was the 8" converters would self destruct and contaminate the transmission. That got better after the 80's. It was so bad at one point I had built an adapter to run a Powerglide since it seemed the Chevy folks weren't having any real issues.

Anyway, should be a lot of fun and pretty low maintenance. Most years I'd run the whole season with just minor checks and fix-ups. Nothing major.

Oh, one last thing. Gut every last bit of weight out of the car. It's a lot easier on everything and you go faster besides. We had the early coupe down to 2150 wet and my fastback down to 2310 wet with the 289's.

[tarafied1]

thanks for the advise, I'll be looking for more as the project progresses. I plan to take every ounce out that I can. Being a budget build means low maintenance also so again thanks!

[SELLERSRODSHOP]

saw these & thought it would give you an idea what prices are locally...

http://nashville.craigslist.org/pts/1883317049.html
http://nashville.craigslist.org/pts/1874471453.html

[fordrule]

ever though of going the CLEVOR setup....a street boss. I am sure we can source up some 2V cleveland heads , or would the 4V heads be better for the strip...

was reading some of this:
 http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/engine/30220_clevor_engine/index.html

[tarafied1]

thanks Steve.

As for the Clevor, that would be cool but at this point I'm just collecting parts and keeping it on a low budget. I can trade stuff I don't need for these heads. I have to work in Chicago this week and he's going to be in Hammond Indiana. We'll meet up and make the swap. He's throwing in an intake also.
I've got another wanting to trade some Boss 429 parts for some of my other RC stuff. Valve covers and a dual quad intake, a "filled" Boss block. Not sure I need any of that but maybe easier to sell.

[jking]

Boss stuff :craz  :10