Transmission decisions

[RustyRed]

What all is involved in switching to an AOD?  Is there a group out there that sells the set up complete?

I am kicking around various options.  One would be to put a shift kit in my current C4 and call it a day, maybe stick one of the servo kits in it for good measure.

Another option someone suggested would be finding one of the performance automatic C4's that is already built and just do the swap.  I am not particularly a fan of this option to be honest.

I keep reading how AOD will save gas and provide good performance and wondering what all is involved in that?

[cmayna]

After I installed the AOD in Red who had a c4, I never looked back.  With a 3.0 rearend (which I agree is too high, which I plan to swap out to a 3.25), I run 2000rpm at 70mph.  For around town I stay in 3rd and only when I know I'll be going above 45mph will I shift into OD.

[buening]

It's a pretty straightforward install until you get to the TV cable adjustment.  You can trash the trans in a second if that cable isn't adjusted correctly

[blue65coupe]

From what I understand a new crossmember and maybe a yoke and that's about it.  You'll have to have a transmission shop adjust it (, don't drive it there) but there's not much to it.  I found this out last year when discussing it with Sanborn and have kicked myself ever since for not doing it.  

[RustyRed]

So I am guessing that the first step in an AOD conversion would be finding a transmission?

There seem to be several out there for a couple of hundred like this one...

http://houston.craigslist.org/pts/1705808700.html

[gotstang]

I'd hold out for a good deal. I bought a running 5.0L/AOD complete with the wiring harness and factory ministarter for about what that guy on craigslist wants for his AOD. Most any AOD will work too, as will most Ford yokes and a lot of driveshafts...no need to be too choosy about what the parts came out of.

You'll need a 351W/AOD flywheel to put an AOD on an early 289/302, that's a $25 piece from bulkpart. New C4 rubber trans mount, AOD conversion x-member, Lokar TV cable, shifter adapter kit, and the backup/NSS wiring. C4 speedo cable should work....that's pretty much it.

[tarafied1]

The cable is not as scary as one would think. Ideally you would need a pressure gauge but the idea is that the TV cable tells the trans when to increase pressure for being under load. At idle the trans doesn't need a lot of pressure, when accelerating it needs more pressure than just cruising. What happens to some that do the swap, they don't know how to set it and if you drive the car with it set too "loose" the clutches will slip and get fried. I set mine without a gauge 6 years ago and it's still going strong. Here is a link to the procedure I used.
http://www.txchange.com/aodadj.htm

[buening]

What's your budget like?  If a few extra bones are available, look into the 4r70w or the 4r75w.  It needs a Baumann controller but IMO they are a much better trans.

[gwstang]

Ideally there is supposed to be an incremental "rise" in pressure as the throttle linkage is engaged.  I took the oil pressure gauge off of my old '52 8N ford tractor to use for the pressure gauge to set the tv cable and it worked great....lol.  Gotta love those Fords... :coo

[gwstang]

Get an aod and rebuild it yourself as so many have done.  It was not that hard for me.  http://www.badshoeproductions.com/

[Jonk67]

How much >60mph hwy driving do you do? That's the main area where an AOD comes in useful. The other win is that you can then install taller gears (3.25, 3.50, 3.73,etc.) in the rear for more snap off the line and still have a a car that will cruise at 2000-2400RPM @ 70mph. If you leave the old ~2.79-3.00 gears in you won't notice any off the line difference as 1-3 are almost identical in the C4 and AOD.

You'll also have to redo your exhaust as the AOD is much wider at the pan. If you have stock exh. you may be able to just have an exh. shop reweld from the drop down from the donut gaskets to the trans mount.

It does involve some expense, I'm probably into it $1K but I installed a built AOD and higher stall conv. vs. staying stock. You could probably do it for ~$500 ($200 AOD w/conv., $75 Lokar cable, $100 trans. mount, flywheel $25,etc.$100). If you can weld you can make your own mount and the linkage rod is easy to make from threaded rod and some rod ends, easier to do if you get a mustand AOD as the trans lever points up, other models point down but it can be flipped. The NSS switch can be cut/spliced from the AOD to your C4 plug, only 4 wires, get the AOD wire if you can.

Jon

[johnpro]

I would highly recommend a higher stall converter, and make it a lock-up converter.  I went with a non-lockup, so do don't get as much advantage as I could have.  My '66 has a B&M 2400 Holeshot converter, with a 3.50:1 9" traction-lok.

I get about 22 mpg on the freeway, and can run 14 seconds flat in the 1/4 on street tires.

Setting up the TV cable is not difficult to do at all.  I tried it with the gauge, and couldn't get it to work right.  Just set it without the gauge and never looked back (this was probably 8 years ago).

[daveSanborn]

Good info and the only thing I'd like to expand upon is exhaust/headers.  As mentioned the exhaust pipes may interfere with the AOD, but of greater concern should be the headers.  Some headers WILL NOT work in stock form with an AOD... they'll hit either the side of the trans. pan or the side of the trans. case.

As with any simple modification, one thing always leads to another.  Pickup an AOD when the time is "perfect".... like when someone says "come get it and it's yours".... and start working from there.

[RustyRed]

How much >60mph hwy driving do you do?

Jon

If you mean legally as in on the freeway...not to much.  I run up to car shows in Conroe on rare occasion but that's about it.

On the parkway here more locally where the speed limit is 45 mph...well I plead no knowledge of any wrong doing and exercise my fifth amendment rights thank you :-)

I do need to look at my exhaust as well.  Thinking maybe I'll keep saving up money and keep my ear to the ground for now.

[Jonk67]

If you mean legally as in on the freeway...not to much.  I run up to car shows in Conroe on rare occasion but that's about it.
On the parkway here more locally where the speed limit is 45 mph...well I plead no knowledge of any wrong doing and exercise my fifth amendment rights thank you :-)
I do need to look at my exhaust as well.  Thinking maybe I'll keep saving up money and keep my ear to the ground for now.

What you do on the freeway is between you and the gas pedal 

I just meant that since the gears are nearly the same 1,2,3 on a C4 and AOD the main benefit is dropping the ratio in OD so that your RPM's drop by 1K usually or more depending on what gears are in the rear which makes longer distance 60mph and > trips much more enjoyable (engines not screaming the whole time at a higher RPM for naught) and mileage increases. The other benefit is the ability to put taller rear gears for more snap off the line but would be the same for a C4 until you get to top gear, then you'll be running even higher RPM's than stock with the C4 at 60mph>.

If I weren't going to drive my car a lot of distance and on the interstate at 70+ so much I doubt I would have gone through the trouble to switch to AOD for the expense and time.
Jon

[RustyRed]

Would something along these lines be a better option along with changing out the rear gears?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Performance-Automatic-C4-Super-Streeter-Transmission-/140405619674?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20b0d3bbda

Only other alternative is to try and beef up my C4.  Problem is I don't know much about it other than I haven't noticed any slip and doesn't seem to have any major leaks, etc.  It's probably 15 years since last rebuild if I am guessing correctly from some paper work given to me by the previous owner.

I do know the other day it made kind of a funky noise (like metal on metal sound) when I got on the gas and then let back off.

[tarafied1]

I have a C6 which is basically a bigger C4. Both are good trannys and can be made to withstand a lot HP. The only advantage of the AOD is the OD part. With the Power Tour coming up I wish I had OD for a little less ga$ but my car will cruise along at highway speeds nicely without it. If I spend the money, I'm going to a 5 speed (or 6) manual just cuz it will be more fun to drive and get better mpg (maybe go from 13 to 15!)

[guruatbol]

Drove the 67 with the stock diff and T5.  I now remember why I put the T5 in it.  Was just fine in 1-4 and got to get it into 5th on the freeway.  No speedo cable so I have no idea how fast I was going, but fast enough to catch and keep up with the traffic.

I still don't like the auto trans....Love both the TKO in the 65 and the T5 in the 67.

Mel

[Dne']

I guess if you have the money and time, anything can be accomplished, right? for me, I'd be happy just to drive my stang up and down the street right now! lol 
So, what does a stock C4, 289, with a stock rear end turn in RPM's, say at 60-70mph?  and what kind of milage would I expect out of my stock 289? someone put up a comparison if you would?

Back in the day, I had a '67 Cougar(about '77) with a 289/auto/ac, and seemed like it did ok on gas, but gas was only maybe a buck or so a gallon, so I could fill up with change found on my floorboard! lol  I don't remember feeling like I needed another gear, but it was a while back.

[Midlife]

I guess if you have the money and time, anything can be accomplished, right? for me, I'd be happy just to drive my stang up and down the street right now! lol 
So, what does a stock C4, 289, with a stock rear end turn in RPM's, say at 60-70mph?  and what kind of milage would I expect out of my stock 289? someone put up a comparison if you would?

With standard 2.80 or 3.0:1 rear ends, you can expect to be at 2000 rpm at 60 MPH in top gear.  Mileage should range between 13-15 mpg in town with standard Ford tune; if you tweak the advance, you can get 17 in and around town.

[Dne']

I can live with that! Thank you Midlife!!

With standard 2.80 or 3.0:1 rear ends, you can expect to be at 2000 rpm at 60 MPH in top gear.  Mileage should range between 13-15 mpg in town with standard Ford tune; if you tweak the advance, you can get 17 in and around town.

[guruatbol]

Mid is optimistic.  If your 289 is bone stock with Ford tuning and you have 3.0:1 gears you might get 13 on highway.  You may get 15 around town.  You see these C4 trannys have a final gear ratio of 1:1, therefore you RPMs on the highway will be around 2500 at 70.  In Kalifornia where the speed limits are low you'll be OK, but out here where the speed limits are 75-80 you'll be able to watch the fuel gauge go down as you drive along.

I like and respect Mid, but I think he is wrong.  Also if you use the Kalifornia blend gas you will get lower mpg.

If you do anything to your 289 you will drop your mpg with the exception of an electronic ignition.  Oh, and what he didn't tell you is that his numbers are with a 2V carb. 

Rock stock 289s with C4s are not loads of fun, they are fun, just not loads.

ALL IMHO....

Mel

[buening]

I got 15mpg on the highway (purely highway) with my 351w, 3.00 pegleg, and FMX trans.  It's possible  :beat

[RustyRed]

my car always seems to need a fill up.  probably in part due to the small gas tanks these cars have.  Mine wasn't great on mileage when I had a stock 289 with a two barrel.

Now that I have the four barrel and other performance parts I can practically watch my gas gauge go down.  I don't really care since my car is just a toy to crruise in locally on nice days

[guruatbol]

I had a 66 with stock 289 and C4 a few years back.  I took it to Knott's the first time I went with the Cali guys.  Well I lived in Cali too. Anyway it is the one I had for the first MITM in Morro Bay.

Anyway on the way up there I did the math and got 12, on the way back got 13.  It was a 2V stocker.  I was happy to put the Edelbrock manifold on it and the 4V holly 600.  I took it to Knott's and got the same 12 to 13.  I drove it at about 70 mph both times.  I kinda resolved myself to the mpg.

Now the 67 with the mods on the 289 and stock 3.0:1 pegleg and T5 gets up a respectable 25 on the highway.   One time I got 28.  Only once.  The 65 with the TKO and 3.50:1 gears gets 22-23 on the highway.  Normally I don't even get that because my foot loves the floor!

Mel