Pedal Predicament - new clutch pedal in the 67

[joesgt281]

Getting the 6 speed swap underway and since the car was an auto, with power brakes, I'm adding a clutch pedal where there was none.
I got a pedal with the kit, and it goes into the pedal hanger just fine.
The power brake pedal hangs from a much higher position, not on the clutch pedal shaft.
But the clutch pedal pad location is noticeably lower than the brake pedal.
Is this normal?
(I will be trimming the brake pedal pad so as to clear the clutch pad, if I keep this pedal).

[buening]

Lower as in you'd need to pull the clutch pedal up towards you in the drivers seat, or the pad itself is lower vertically as if the pedal is too long?  It is normal for the brake pedal to be a bit higher than the clutch pedal, at least that's how they came from the factory.  If the pedal seems too long then you have other issues.

[joesgt281]

I added the pic after my original post.
It's lower in the vertical.

[buening]

I don't think that is normal.  Where did you get the pedal from?   

Are you doing a T56 or Richmond 6spd?

[joesgt281]

It's a T56 kit from American Powertrain.

[Sluggo]

It is normal. Sort of.

When Ford put the pedals in the car at the factory the pads (plates?) were welded to the levers while the levers were assembled on the pedal hangar assembly.

I had the same issue. I ground the weld off the clutch pad and moved it up (in my case) to match the brake pedal.

Kinda hard to tell from the pic, but you might have to move one of them up and the other down. How far off? 1/2 inch...1 inch?

[joesgt281]

Wow that's pretty wild that they did it that way.
I'd say its about an inch off.

[B67FSTB]

I had the same issue when converting from a C4 to a T5z trans.
I bent the clutch pedal arm a bit more at the same spots where it was bent .
So the clutch pedal pad goes up and to the left .
By this method I got it up and at the same time I had more space between the clutch pedal pad and the brake pad.
For safety , you should at least have 2 inches between those pads.Of course IMO !

[johnpro]

No, dude.  That's not normal.  Both pads should be at the same level and parallel to each other.  You need to find a stock pedal, or modify the hell out your existing one.

[buening]

Agree.  I can see maybe a 1/4" difference but that is way the hell off.  You won't have much pedal arm left if you adjust those pads. Do you have a spare brake pedal to compare to?

[joesgt281]

Agree.  I can see maybe a 1/4" difference but that is way the hell off.  You won't have much pedal arm left if you adjust those pads. Do you have a spare brake pedal to compare to?

The car originally came with no power brakes.  I got the booster/mc/brake pedal off of an original PB car.  I still have the pedal from the non-PB days, and it shares the same shaft as the clutch pedal, except when I had no clutch pedal, it had a dummy shaft.  The longer PB brake pedal hangs from a much higher pivot point.
Odd thing is, I hung the non-PB pedal from the clutch shaft, and they both hang at the same height, which sorta made me think that the clutch pedal was the right length.
The problem with using the non PB pedal is that the pushrod is nowhere near long enough (by about 2").  I guess the length into the back of the booster is alot further than just the length to the back of a manual m/c.

[buening]

Ah, so you did hang the non-PB brake pedal with the clutch pedal and they sit at the same level??  If so then I'd suspect your PB automatic brake pedal is way off. You can try to move the pad of the brake pedal down 1/2" and the pad of the clutch pedal up 1/2", because moving the brake pedal pad down a full 1" is not likely possible. 

[daveSanborn]

since the car was an auto, with power brakes, I'm adding a clutch pedal where there was none.
I got a pedal with the kit

Your problem isn't a surprise.  Mixing and then matching pedals can get confusing.

The simplest way forward is to obtain a complete pedal hanger assembly that includes both pedals from a '67 (compatible) PB/manual transmission car.  Trying to "build" an equivalant assembly with the pedals you have will be frustrating.

Not cheap, but here is an example of the correct piece you need.....





http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-68-Mustang-Shelby-PB-Clutch-Pedal-Assembly-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem27b04757b2QQitemZ170461190066QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


.... and then a non-PB version.  There is a difference in the design of the pedals.





http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-68-Mustang-Cougar-Clutch-Pedal-Assembly-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2a0621a2e3QQitemZ180491494115QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[Sluggo]

The only way two pedals are going to match is if they came from the same car as an assembly.

The pedals that came on the 70 hangar I bought to get the clutch pedal from matched perfectly because they were produced as an assembly.

When I cut the auto pedal and put the clutch pedal in, the clutch was lower. I had to grind out the weld and move the pad up. I had to move
it far enough that I had to round over the bottom of the lever because it stuck out past the pad.

[sigtauenus]

Sluggo, I don't disagree with the concept of them being matched as an assembly based on how they were welded, but the 1" difference does not explain that.

I suspect the wrong PB pedal here, particularly if the original non-PB pedal is matching up to the clutch pedal.

The upper mounting point for the PB pedal is present in both styles of brackets Dave pictured.  The only difference I know of is that the non-PB bracket has nuts crimped on to the corners for mounting bolts which enter from the engine compartment side, wheras the PB bracket has open holes on 3 corners for bolts which enter from under the dash and go into the PB booster.  One corner on the PB bracket still uses a crimped on nut and the bolt from the engine compartment side.

I use this for reference on the pedals...

http://www.mustangsteve.com/fyi_brakepedals/msFAQbrakepedals.html

[B67FSTB]

Here is my set up after converting from C4 automatic and non power brake pedal to T5z manual and power brake pedals setup.
I had to bent the clutch pedal at the exiting bent and it came out nice IMO.
I still have to attach some kind of rubber at the support to adjust it so its even with the brake pedal.

[garner67]

... I still have the pedal from the non-PB days, and it shares the same shaft as the clutch pedal, except when I had no clutch pedal, it had a dummy shaft.  The longer PB brake pedal hangs from a much higher pivot point. ...

Yes, that's the difference.  Power brake pedals hung from a different location than the non PB pedals.  This difference is affecting your pedal height.  

I agree with Sanborn, it'll get confusing trying to piece together a pedal assembly from different cars.  But since you have the old brake pedal, try installing that pedal on the clutch pedal location to see what you get.

[cmayna]

Shag's original PB/clutch pedal assembly

[joesgt281]

It looks like the pedals that Dave showed do show the clutch a little south of the brake pedal (thanks Dave!).
And that Mustang Steve FAQ of sigtauenus' was really great.
I believe I have a 67 PB pedal, which is apparently unique since it didn't have to clear the collapsible steering column.
I suppose that could mean that it's slightly shorter than one from a 68....perhaps not by design, but it simply was done that way.
CMayna....is it safe to say that your pedal is for a 68 PB and not a 67?
Garner67....the non PB pedal hangs perfectly aligned with the clutch pedal, but the pushrod won't work with the PB booster, it's quite a bit too short.
B67FSTB....I think bending the clutch pedal is going to be the easiest thing for me to do as well...yours turned out great.
Thanks guys....STANGFIX Rules!

[cmayna]

Yes it's a 68.

[buening]

I'm gonna have to eat my words on this one.  I went home and pulled my power brake pedal for an automatic out of my mach (pain in the rear to do!!!) and hung it on my clutch pedal assembly.  In my case, my brake pedal is longer than the clutch pedal.  The clutch pedal arm is bent, so I'm hoping after straightening it out it'll match up much better. It's definitely not a full inch off though, thank goodness!

[sigtauenus]

One thing to consider is pedal height from the toe board.  Since the pedals travel in an arc, depending on relative height to the toe board they may have what appears to be different heights vertically even if they are on the same or similar track on the arc.

[daveSanborn]

I think bending the clutch pedal is going to be the easiest thing for me to do as well...

I'm curious to find out how that works out for you.... those pedal arms are pretty solid and by design shouldn't bend very easily.

[B67FSTB]

I bent it with a 3 Tons hydraulic press.
Be careful on how to choose the angle to press.Take your time to support it correct and take little steps in bending.

[Sluggo]

An automatic pedal regardless of power or not was never intended to have a clutch pedal as a neighbor.

I would guess 10 out of 10 times, they ain't gonna match up.