What am I missing (Removing Steering column)

[AtlantaSteve]

OK, 66 mustang, classic spear-o-matic.

I cannot get the tube to come out!

 I unbolted the clamp at the dashboard.  I unbolted the three bolts at the firewall, disconnected the harness, and took apart the collar/bearing assembly.   I have a tube with a column floating in it.  The column moves around freely at the dash, and at the firewall I can move it around and see a complete ring of light where it goes through the firewall.  But I can't get it to budge.   I looked on the engine-side of the firewall and saw nothing bolting it or connecting it.   There is a rubber seal like thing where the column tube meets the box, but without destroying it, I can't do much with it.  Regardless it doesn't look like it'd hold the column as firmly as this one is attached. 

Finally I looked at the new box+column I have sitting on my shelf and saw nothing that looked like it would connect to the tube.

I haven't tried "Forcing" it, like with a crowbar or anything, because whenever I do crap like that I break something.  I expected the tube to come out fairly freely and it is not.

Someone toss a fool a hint...

[MarkStang]

I'll take a shot at this. The tube exits the fire wall and is held in place at the steering box with a rubber like collar ring. I suppose it is possible that the rubber collar ring has turned stiff and is also stuck to the steering box holding the tube with it. The tube could also be held snugly by the rubber grommet at the fire wall. I can not think of anything else that could hold the tube in place.

[Midlife]

The grommet is it.  Ask me how I know!

You'll have to pry the grommet out of the tube at the firewall engine side.  They are reproduced.

[AtlantaSteve]

Thanks guys.  After the wee-one is in bed, I'll go out there and bang on it.

*sigh*  More nickle and dime crap that never showed on the budget :)

[Midlife]

It's an old conspiracy from Ford to make you stimulate the economy.  *G*

[AzPete]

*sigh*  More nickle and dime crap that never showed on the budget :)

I'm sorry....the word budget does not compute when dealing with a classic car. It did cause me to chuckle a bit though. :lol

[AtlantaSteve]

I'm sorry....the word budget does not compute when dealing with a classic car. It did cause me to chuckle a bit though. :lol

Good Point.  Budget tends to mean that once you've spent what you allotted, you stop spending...That sure as hell ain't true!!!!  Instead of budget I should have said "Wild A$$ BS guess I came up with on how much this crap would cost." 

anyway, Y'all were right...a little prying and twisting and yanking and it came right out.  Thanks again!

[AzPete]

Yep.

[Jonk67]

Steve, whatcha' doing with the column? just out for a rebuild/repaint or an upgrade???
Jon

[stump]

"Wild A$$ BS guess I came up with on how much this crap would cost." 

That's the math I use...

[gwstang]

Hey, if you aren't yanking/pulling/prying on something with these old cars...you ain't having much fun!   :lol

[AtlantaSteve]

Steve, whatcha' doing with the column? just out for a rebuild/repaint or an upgrade???
Jon

Well I have another stock (19:1, unfortunately) box set aside to go in.  Mine has the i6 pitman arm attached.  I was going to just buy a new pitman arm, but the guy gave me such a deal on the box that I went ahead and snagged it.  Plus I can tell it's in much better condition than my box.

So, for the time being...yep, back to the spear-o-matic.  I wanted to figure some collapsible solution out, but there doesn't seem to be one.  The Ididit column for my car isn't collapsible, and I've heard bad things about the FR column, so I don't know what my option is yet.  I hate doing something I know I want to redo, but I simply haven't figured out what I want to do with the steering column, yet.

Unfortunately, I'll still have the stocker waiting to chest bump me.

But yeah while it's out I'm gonna clean it up and repaint.

[Jonk67]

Gotcha', I didn't like the aftermarket options for my car either (~$1K by the time you get column, box, install parts) so I just swapped in a '68-'69 collapseable column w/rag joint. Sent my good original box (PS so still pretty tight) to Stangerssite and won a '69 16:1 box on fleabay cheap and had it shipped direct to him.

Randy rebuilt my original box and installed the short input shaft from the '69 box and left my stock 1" pitman shaft (vs. '69 1.125") so everything would match up. Now I have a rebuilt box with short shaft, rag and collapseable column for <$300 vs. $1,000. Randy told me he used the '69 gearbox to rebuild for a Boss302 resto. in CA and I got credit for the core.

Yeah it doesn't tilt but for $700 less I can live with it, my fox seats slide back farther so the tilt doesn't bother me. I figured if I ever luck out and find a <$100 original '68-'69 tilt column now I can just swap them out since the rag joint is already there. Just another option you might consider while the box is out. Randy took a few months to rebuild the box but as you know it didn't hold me up...

Jon

[AtlantaSteve]

I think the 68 style column could go in my car, but I found this site:
http://www.tm66mustang.com/photo_album.html

that shows it'd be a lot of work.  Not that work is bad, but it's, like, how much more down a rabbit hole do I want to go?

What I'd really like to have is a 65/66 ididit column that could collapse, but as far as I can tell, this doesn't exist.

So I haven't decided yet.   Not putting the new box back in for a few weeks (just because how rarely I get time in the garage) so I have a little while to think about it.

Steve

[Jonk67]

It's hard to follow what he did on that link w/o pics of the steps.

My '67 column strap looks just like the one in the '66 pic. All I did was get the mount for the '68 with the column and it lined right up, it doesn't sound like he used the '68 strap, I didn't have to cut any slots, etc. that he mentions. The only other thing I had to do was splice my pigtail onto the newer column and all the wires were the same color or shade. I'll send you some pics in a PM if you like, wasn't that hard once I had the rag joint box in. I put a new bearing in the '68 column and relubed/repainted it, looks stock now.
Jon

[AtlantaSteve]

http://www.tm66mustang.com/slideshow_flash1.html  There are the pics.

edit to add:  Looks like you and he did about the same thing...Re-reading it and seeing the pictures it doesn't seem that hard.  Just gotta find a stock 68 style column, and a decent 67-68 short shaft 1 1/8 sector box.

Hmmm.

[Jonk67]

Yeah, looks like he just had the '68 column and fabbed everything else up to fit - '66 tab, truck floor plate, etc. If you get a column with the '68/9 mount (2pcs.) and floor plate (2pcs.) it all fits stock. Do you have 4 holes in the floor around the column hole in the floor? I'll get some pics of mine now that it's in. He also cut/splined his stock box vs. changing the box out.

Search fleabay, I saw at least one a week on there when I bought, no one's hunting noncollapseable columns or standard boxes when they can switch to FR/Ididit columns/boxes. You may find one local. I have the pitman arm from the '69 box (1.125" pitman shaft) in case you can't find a 1" one and need to switch pitmans, not sure if it's different manual to PS shape, I can bring it the next time i'm in the ATL and leave it with you in case you need it.
Jon

[AtlantaSteve]

He also cut/splined his stock box vs. changing the box out.

I don't think so because he said he started with a '67 box with the short shaft...on the text page.   I think he cut the 66 column just to make taking it out easier...it would definitely do that.

[tarafied1]

I bought a 68 parts car for $650 that had everything I needed to do that swap as well as a lot of other goodies. (I still have the spear-o-matic also). But I ended up getting an offer on it I couldn't refuse so I sold it.  :cry

[AtlantaSteve]

Resurrecting this zombie thread for two purposes:
1)Can't let J have all the fun
2)Got new info.

This afternoon I called Ididit and talked to a sales tech.  She was very knowledgeable and very friendly.  I talked with her about what my car is, and what my goals are, and said that one of my concerns was that their 65-66 column is non-collapsible, and asked why that was, when the 68 column IS collapsible.

Her basic answer was that the dashboard on the 65-66 cars is not strong enough to support a collapsible column in an accident.  I never could get a clear answer to what the safety hazard is of having a collapsible column on an older dash.  You could tell there were certain things she didn't want to say, as we all know, these cars are more dangerous than modern cars, even on the best day.

However, she also pointed out that internally there are multiple parts to the column that will break in an accident, unlike the solid spear of the spear-o-matic.  She said they'd happily sell me a 68 collapsible column and it'd mostly bolt into a 65-66 car with a little modification, but that she's not convinced that is any safer than their 65-66 column in the same car, and that the box and the steering wheel are not going to be connected after any accident severe enough to compromise those systems, whereas on a spear-o-matic, they will stay tightly coupled.

Anyway, still not sure what I'm gonna do.  I had considered just swapping in a 68 column + Box but according to her, it's not really a great solution either.   I'm currently revisting the idea of just going with a 65-66 ididit column and letting it be good enough.

[tarafied1]

I haven't messed with 65/66 Stangs much but what is so different in the dash? They are both sheetmetal... Is there some bracing in the later cars that the early ones don't have?

[Jonk67]

I would ask her if she can email you schematics of the iternals of their column to see what parts will break allowing the column not to push up into your chest/jaw as one '65-'66 crash I saw pics of (column was pointing at the roof above the drivers head and driver sustained multiple injuries to chest, neck and jaw but survived).

This statement wouldn't be sufficient for me "she also pointed out that internally there are multiple parts to the column that will break in an accident" that's like my friends saying, 'don't worry, if you fall we'll catch you" I'd like more reassurance than just a rep. for the co. telling me on the phone that they're safe. Granted the Ididit has a coupler at the gearbox connection but I think it's a solid flex joint? in the instance of an accident it would only need to line up directly and bind to pass all the energy up the shaft seems to me?

The design of the '68> collapseable is a smaller lower D shaft and a hollow upper D shaft with a couple of plastic 'plugs' going through both, it wouldn't take much force to snap the plastic plugs allowing the D shafts to slide within each other easily shortening the length of the column by 1/2 it's original length and it's very easy to understand how it works. Wish I would have taken pics of it when I rebuilt it and had the center shaft out.
Jon

[AtlantaSteve]

Yeah I'm still considering either looking for a 68 column, or buying the collapsing 68 column from Ididit (I mean, tilt WOULD be nice)

What she said never really clicked with me.  She said the 68-up has additional bracing behind the sheetmetal.  I don't have anything to look at but a 66, so I have no clue.

I don't see how a collapsing column could be MORE dangerous than non-collapsing.

[Jonk67]

I don't see how a collapsing column could be MORE dangerous than non-collapsing.

Maybe she meant if the column collapsed then your face would hit the dash but really, how much worse could you get? :ep

I guess they may not want to release the internal design of their column but I'd be more comfortable buying from them if they at least posted individual snapshots of the parts she claims would break in an accident. Her statement almost sounds like they would break from the impact but not by design?
Jon

[cmayna]

Click on Gallery and then Recent.  You'll find  9 steering column pics I just loaded


Steve,
I can probably find you a 68 column if you want one.