Damn horn is kicking my arse....

[daveSanborn]

My horn upon initial build was working flawlessly...... now it's not working at all.

I checked both (high and low) horns by running a jumper wire directly to them from the starter solenoid.  They both work great.  Back-tracking, I removed the steering wheel/horn button and taped the two horn contact wires together (at this point they're both black, but underneath as part of the columns wiring harness they are BK/YL and YL).  Back under the hood, I put a test light on each + wire and nothing... no power is getting to the horns.

Working from the column now, I disconnected the two previously taped together BK horn contact ring wires.  On the column harness, the BK/YL wire has constant + and the YL wire only gets + as the 2 BK horn wires are connected.  So far, so good here.  I traced the YL wire down to where the column harness connects via an electrical disconnect and the YL wire still gets + when the 2 BK wires are connected.  I then put my test light on the Painless BK/RD wire, which connects to the YL wire via the connector and I'm still getting +.  The Painless BK/RD wire then feeds into the backside of the fuse box wherupon I lose it.

With no schematic (thanks Painless!), I'm guessing that this BK/RD wire connects to the Painless horn relay that's part of the fuse box.  The horn fuse is getting power, but how do I check the little 4 prong relay?  There are 2 relays side by side above the two banks of fuses.... one marked "horn relay", the other marked "accessory relay".  Both of these relays have the same PN printed on them.  I swapped the relays and it made no effect whatsoever.  I seriously doubt that both relays could be bad.... I don't think I ever used the "accessory" wires that Painless provides for wiring up an aftermarket stereo, so this relay should definitely be good.

According to the very weak Painless wire diagram (I refuse to call it a schematic), the BK/YL wire coming out of the fuse box is the horn + wire.  I'm getting no power to this wire out of the fuse box.

Is a horn relay necessary?  I hate to start butchering the Painless harness, but if I could run a jumper wire from the previously mentioned BK/RD wire (which is hot when the horn is activated) right before it goes into the fuse box (and I surmise connecting to the horn relay).... over to the BK/YL wire coming out of the fuse box, in theory, the horns should work.  I'm just uncertain of the horn relays function....  is it designed to boost power?

Of course Painless customer service can help with this in the AM when their phone lines open, but I thought I'd throw it by you guys first. 

[AzPete]

Most relays are just there to provide a better power supply to the item without full power/amps going thru the switch. The original horn set up had no relay. I would do a temp. wire to the horns from the steering column and see what that does.

Of course, I may need to have another beer with Mid before anything worthwhile is decided around here.......

[Midlife]

Relays are designed to provide full voltage to a device, using the trigger voltage as the exciter for the relay.

I'd say your idea would work, so long as your circuit is fused and your wiring is of an appropriate size to carry the load.

IIRC, the horns take about 1-2 amps.  Try measuring the resistance of a horn between the + and ground and divide the 14 V of the battery by the resistance: it should give you an indication of the current if I am wrong.

Beep Beep!

[Midlife]

Most relays are just there to provide a better power supply to the item without full power/amps going thru the switch. The original horn set up had no relay. I would do a temp. wire to the horns from the steering column and see what that does.

Of course, I may need to have another beer with Mid before anything worthwhile is decided around here.......

Yeah...I like that idea a lot.  When are you bringing your keg?  *LOL*

[daveSanborn]

What caught my eye was the wire thickness of the factories column YL wire where it transitioned into the Painless harness.. Factory wire = thick....   Painless wire going into relay = thin.

We'll see what Painless has to say in the AM.

[daveSanborn]

Update.....

I just got off the phone with the Painless CS rep.  The horn relay is grounded via a ring terminal ground wire behind the instrument cluster.

Someone I know just did that 5 guage cluster to 6 gauge cluster swap and had a bunch of these wires behind the cluster disconnected..... it's possible/likely that the dumbass forgot to re-connect this horn relay ground wire.  I'll pull the cluster back out tonight and investigate.

[Midlife]

I'd fire that dumbass and find me another.

[AzPete]

If that is the case, I would hesitate to let that "dumbass" work on the car anymore. Or at least limit the beer intake for a while. :drunken_smilie

Hope that is the problem. Sounds like an easy fix.

[daveSanborn]

I'd fire that dumbass and find me another.

When someone new shows up willing to work on the car for free, the dumbass is getting fired, period!  Until then I'm stuck with him.   :jam

[Midlife]

Have Beer, Will Work!

[daveSanborn]

it's possible/likely that the dumbass forgot to re-connect this horn relay ground wire.  I'll pull the cluster back out tonight and investigate.

Update....

Sure enough, it was the ground wire.  When I rewired the 6 guage cluster, I built a ground harness for each guage and grounded this new harness to the dash structure.  After seeing the disconnected factory ground wire just laying there behind the cluster, I remembered purposely not re-connecting it because all of the guage instrumentation/lights/blinkers were working fine.  I never thought that it would effect the horns operation.  Everything is in order now and I can once again blow my horn at idiots on the roadways!

[AzPete]

Dave Sanborn being able to blow his own......horn. Now that is something.

[Midlife]

Dave Sanborn being able to blow his own......horn. Now that is something.

Worse than that, he's finally grounded! ~sp