which heads

[blue65coupe]

I've decided to go with new heads.  We're gonna clean up and resurface the old ones so if you know anyone wanting some 302 heads, let me know and I can get 'em the specs.  I've looked at aluminum, GT-40, and still have my old 289 heads that would need to be rebuilt.  Give me some ideas without breaking the bank.

What I've got:  289 that's been bored +0.040 running the edelbrock performer package.  Cam specs are:
 ENGINE: FORD 289-302 V8
RPM RANGE: Idle-5500

Duration at 0.006" Lift:   Intake: 270°   Exhaust: 280°
Duration at 0.050" Lift:   Intake: 204°   Exhaust: 214°
Lift at Cam:   Intake: 0.280"   Exhaust: 0.295"
Lift at Valve:   Intake: 0.448"   Exhaust: 0.472"
Timing at 0.050" lift:   Open   Close
Intake:   5° ATDC   29° ABDC
Exhaust:   44° BBDC   10° BTDC
Centerlines:   Lobe Separation - 112°   Intake Centerline - 107°

I've got hedman elite long tube headers and my block was decked 0.010 when we did the rebuild.  Now, the engine had been rebuilt before (many moons ago by PO) so it's safe to assume the block had been decked at that time considering that's when the cylinders were bored.  I've got the measurements of piston to deck clearance at the house but that really shouldn't come into play here.  So, what's your thoughts?

[daveSanborn]

running the edelbrock performer package

Wouldn't the Edelbrock heads complete this package?

[blue65coupe]

That's where I'm leaning.  Just asking for some input from the smarter folk.

[buening]

I vote for AFR 165 heads, possibly some slightly used ones from the classifieds over at corral.net.   They can be had for $900 shipped if you have patience.

I've never been impressed with performer heads, but thats just my opinion.  Edelbrock "packages" always seem to fall short of the company's performance claims.

[Nitroduck]

I'm voting for the Trickflow Twisted Wedge heads. They have larger valves compared to the AFR 165. (2.020/1.6 TW, 1.9 / 1.6 AFR) I did my research when I put them on my 94 302 Mustang. They run great! They also don't require different pistons because of the valve angle. Great design

[buening]

I'm voting for the Trickflow Twisted Wedge heads. They also don't require different pistons because of the valve angle. Great design

Huh?  That is the exact opposite according to my knowledge.  You even have to buy pistons made specifically for TW heads due to the valve angle.  Typical aftermarket pistons that work with Eddy and AFR heads won't work with TW heads.  I could be off though, but was under the assumption stock pistons won't work with TW heads but will work with AFR 165s with moderate cam.

[monkeystash]

I'm voting for the Trickflow Twisted Wedge heads. They have larger valves compared to the AFR 165. (2.020/1.6 TW, 1.9 / 1.6 AFR) I did my research when I put them on my 94 302 Mustang. They run great! They also don't require different pistons because of the valve angle. Great design

Huh?  That is the exact opposite according to my knowledge.  You even have to buy pistons made specifically for TW heads due to the valve angle.  Typical aftermarket pistons that work with Eddy and AFR heads won't work with TW heads.  I could be off though, but was under the assumption stock pistons won't work with TW heads but will work with AFR 165s with moderate cam.

Actually, you are both right, sort of.  With a small to mild cam, you can most likely get away without flycutting using 2.02" TW heads.  However, if you use a larger cam, then eyebrows located higher on the piston are required.  There is no magic number here either; as with any cam/head swap, checking valve to piston clearance is required. 

Both AFR 165s and TW heads are awesome.  You cannot go wrong with either.  The safer bet is the AFRs due to the 1.90" intake valve.  This most likely takes flycutting the pistons out of the equation (check clearance anyway).  Another benefit to the AFRs is the 8mm valves they use.  This lightens up the valvetrain to help prevent float at higher RPMs.

Now, the current cam you have isn't ideal for either of these heads...a bit small.  If you are willing to change it, you can really maximize the new heads. 

I second the corral.net classifieds.  I've bought tons of parts over there with great results and saved a bunch of cash. 

http://forums.corral.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=269
   

[Starfury]

You aren't going to come even close to having valve clearance issues with Twisted Wedge heads with that cam.  They're designed specifically as bolt-ons for 5.0's that run factory flat top pistons.  I still have plenty of clearance with my TFS heads and Comp Cams 280H which runs .512" lift and a lot more duration.  If you get closer to or over .520", then you should start worrying.

I love my Twisted Wedge heads.  Excellent build quality and great performance.

I've heard a fair amount of quality complaints about AFR.  They flow well (although not always as well as they claim), but they use so-so aluminum and don't helicoil threads.  Edelbrock and Trick Flow use better quality aluminum and helicoil threads to keep from pulling threads out of the heads.

I agree that you should keep an eye on the Corral Forums classifieds.  Lots of good deals can be had there from 5.0 guys looking to upgrade.

[68EFIvert]

I've used both AFR 165 and TW with my new engine.  I was about to use Victor Jr's on the new engine until my cam guy said that inline heads (FMS, AFR and Eddy's) were at a distinct disadvantage compared to the TW heads.  What I do like about the TW design is that it appears to have similiar flow characteristics to the AFR 165 but if you ever want to step up the power the port work you can do to these heads is pretty amazing.  I'd say go with TW 170's.  If I would have originally purchased the TW 170's I likely never would have purchased another set (or two) heads for the new engine.  

One more thing.  The TW heads are cheaper than AFR heads so if you need to fly cut your pistons you can still do so in the same budget.  I don't think you will need to but I would not guarantee it.  Trick Flow told me that you are good for .522 lift IIRC.  My new cam has about .570 lift so I had to clearance my pistons.

I am using the larger Fast As Cast 190 heads and hope to have some real world performance feedback to report in a few weeks.  I need to wait for my radiator to arrive.

[buening]

Good point fellas.  I think we can all agree that no matter what aluminum head you go with, your engine won't come close to getting the max potential out of the heads but the heads will get the max potential from your engine setup compared to stock iron heads.  If it were me, it'd come down to how good of a deal I could get on either AFR, TW, or Canfield heads since I'm budget minded. Until you reach the upper spectrum of these heads, the HP difference between them is quite minimal.

Take Darreld's situation into mind if you ever think there is a SLIGHT chance of getting a large cam or building the motor for more power.  You don't want to buy heads more than once unless you get a good deal on a used set initially. You'll lose money if you buy new each time.

 

[68EFIvert]

One more word of advice on buying used.  It may cost less initially but if you have to give them a valve job or if they need springs to match your setup you could easily pay more for used than buying new heads that are set up for your combo. 

[66gt350]

I'm running a set of the Twisted Wedge heads on my fastback.  I've got the E303 cam which has a 0.498 lift, with standard flat top forged pistons.  I checked for clearance and I didn't have to flycut the pistons.  These are great heads.  I love 'em.  The cam is a different story.... :cry

[68EFIvert]

I had the E303 cam on my old engine and did not like it either.  Crappy vacuum and equally crappy idle quality.

[blue65coupe]

thanks for the input

[camachinist]

What stall converter and what's the application? IME, it's easy to get far more horsepower than the chassis can handle with even a mild aftermarket head. If you are thinking 50-70K service intervals, buy mild and reliable.

I retired my Performer RPM's after about 330 runs with no operational issues. That was on an engine making around 480hp @ 7500rpm. By all accounts, they spec out fine. The newer heads likely perform better but they were all I needed. Good luck 

[blue65coupe]

Nothing of that nature.  Probably pushing 300hp or just under if I had to guess.  I spent some time in chat last night with Ryan, Jake, and Kyle picking their brains.  After I got all the boogers out of the way it looks as if I'm gonna go with the Edelbrock E-streets.  I just got some assurance as to my thoughts.  Is it worth $400 for 20hp on my application?  No.  Ryan did suggest 1.7 rockers to open it up more (this was new to me), def. want locks and summit sells their roller rockers with locks for under $200 for the set.  I'll have to get 'em on and then measure for pushrods.  I'm not going to get into changing the cam and everything (less than 1000 miles on current build) so I want to make sure not to spend more than I'll need.  Thanks again for the input.

[ClassicRecreations]

AFR 185CC heads!
They are not cheap but will surprise you. PM me for pricing.

[Tony R]

My engine builder is building my block for the AFR 165s as well.  One of the last things that I need for the block then i can start mocking up the engine bay and figuring where to put the turbos.

[buening]

My engine builder is building my block for the AFR 165s as well.  One of the last things that I need for the block then i can start mocking up the engine bay and figuring where to put the turbos.

Not second guessing you or your builder, but if you are using turbos on your motor you will likely be choking the motor with those 165s.  I'd be going with a bigger head under boost, but that's just my opinion  :craz

[Tony R]

I don't know.  I talked with the machine shop and he is supposed to be a performance shop.  I told him that I was using twin turbos and that I wanted to be in the vicinity of 500 HP.  Since it is going to be my wife's DD I don't need more than that.  We did discuss using the cast heads that came on the car but the cost of the machine work and parts would put me in the price range of the afr 165s.

He was trying to talk me out of the twins but I got them for a steal and I would like the symmetry when I pop the hood.  He tells me that I can get away with 3-5 lbs of boost and reach my HP goals easily.  Time will only tell.