I am very pissed at myself. Gonna have to pull the Cleveland -maybe NOT!!

[johnpro]

Nope, don't necessarily like the Hydraulic clutch set up.  I'd rather consider modifying the Z bar.   John of ORP also mentioned that this might be a choice but will take a lot of research and measuring.  Yesterday I had already considered modifying the bar by pushing the lower arm closer to the motor to allow more space between the lower arm and the steering box.  But when you do this, you distort the angle of the lower adjusting rod than connects between lower Zbar arm to clutch form.

I do NOT want to end up with a mickey mouse setup.  If I need to swap out the manifolds I will do so and hopefully recoup some of my new costs by selling the current manifolds. 

I'm not sure why you'd rather go with a pre-historic z-bar instead of a hydraulic setup, especially considering your current delima.  Yes, the z-bar works, but it's a lot more pedal effort and has the problems that you are encountering now, when using a non-stock setup.  A Cleveland in a '68 is far from anything original looking, so it's not like the hydraulic clutch would look out of place in such a modified car.  I also don't understand someone's comment about you having the wrong clutch fork.  You're running a T5 ... aren't you running a diaphragm type pressure plate and a late model fork?  If so, the hydraulic would be easy to install.

If you're running the original style pressure plate and fork, then, yes, it's a much bigger project.

A decent hydraulic setup, I wouldn't consider Mickey Mouse.  I should have let you drive Scary to see how the hydraulic clutch is in it.  It requires about the same or less effort as my son's Honda.

[abrahamfh]

Sorry to hear about the exhaust manifold issues Craig. That really sucks, but hey, it will give us another chance to get together.

Let me know when your ready and I will be there.

[69RestoRod]

I should have let you drive Scary to see how the hydraulic clutch is in it. 

I think you may have him convinced with that single statement right there. But then he'll want to pull the Clevo and stroke it afterwards.

[vamustang]

Dang that sucks !  I think I have an extra Clev. exhaust manifold, but I cannot remember which side.  I'm in Canada until Dec. 3rd, I will check when I get home.  It's free to you if you have not fold anything by then....  Just let me know,  Chris

+1 on the Hydralic clutch. 

[Mach1Rider]

This is a first for me for I have no one to blame but myself.  Now I'm starting to understand what's it like being human.  I should have studied more, asked more questions, etc. But  "oh well"......

In a nutshell, these manifolds were last used with a automatic transmission. The exit is pointing pretty horizontally towards the rear.  With the Zbar in relaxed position with the lower arm forward, the arm cuts right through the exhaust.  This lower arm get's so close to the exit opening that there is no way to fit a small 90 degree pipe, etc. The pipe would also need to be crimped.  This exit hole also faces someone outward aim very close to the steering box wanting to go between the steering box and the lower arm with a gap of about 1-1/2".

Here's my current set up. Note how horizontally the exhaust exits.




Here's a LH manifold on ebay supplied to me today by John of ORP.  Note how it points more toward the ground:

exhaust manifold


Here's some pics I took today showing the interference:


See how it points somewhat towards the steering box?
[smg id=3558]


Another angle:
[smg id=3557]

Thus I am planning to either find a single LH manual transmission Cleveland 4v manifold or at worst case another set.  No matter what I get, I'm going to be hosting yet another party but this time called "yank and drop" with us pulling the motor, swapping the manifold(s) and dropping the motor back in.

Crap!!! :po

I just went out and looked at mine, and the equalizer bar is differant from yours.
The bottom of the bar where the rod to the clutch fork goes has a Z bend in it.
This will give you open space to attach the exhaust pipe to the manifold.

[crustycurmudgeon]

Craig, is your Z bar an ORP reworked piece?  If you end up having to get the later Z bar or go hydraulic clutch, and if your current Z bar is the same for '67, I would be willing to buy it from you.  I'll be keeping the Z bar when I go to the T5.

Frank

[cmayna]

Frank,
According to my study, all I need to do is to  swap out the original 68 Zbar and install a Boss 302 Zbar.  If this is the case, then we can work out a deal on my ORP modified 67/68 Zbar setup.   Stay tuned.

[cmayna]

As it stands after a fair amount of research,  I might be able to use the current exhaust manifold and instead replace the Zbar from the  original 67/68 setup to a Boss 302 Zbar. A lot more research before any final decision.

[69RestoRod]

A 70 mustang 351C Z bar wouldn't work? Figure it's be easier and cheaper to find. Aren't the frame rail dimensions the same from 68-70.

[gotstang]

A 70 mustang 351C Z bar wouldn't work? Figure it's be easier and cheaper to find. Aren't the frame rail dimensions the same from 68-70.

That's what I was thinking, I figure the deck height of a Boss302 motor would throw things out of whack, so you might be better off with a 351C unit?

--Armchair General out!

[garner67]

Frank,
According to my study, all I need to do is to  swap out the original 68 Zbar and install a Boss 302 Zbar.  If this is the case, then we can work out a deal on my ORP modified 67/68 Zbar setup.   Stay tuned.

OK... thinking out of the box.

What about cutting and rewelding the exhaust outlet port facing down?  Sure it wouldn't look exactly stock, but I bet you could get it looking pretty darn good.  If you don't like it, you could  just chalk it up to experience.

[Mach1Rider]

That's what I was thinking, I figure the deck height of a Boss302 motor would throw things out of whack, so you might be better off with a 351C unit?

--Armchair General out!

Thats is my thinking too,  Wish I could have posted a better pic of my C set up but the hooker header is in the way.
 The block side arm is different from what he has now and should fix the problem. :ide

[cmayna]

Michael,
I'd rather swap out mannies before doing that and if I have to do that, I'll try the D1ZE-9431-BA manny, but with all the studying I have done in the past couple days getting more input from a Cleveland forum and other Mustang parts suppliers, I think I'm heading in the right direction.   It was really nice having KBMWRS over yesterday with his Mustang to give me another hands on opinion.  We both think the Boss 302 zbar will work.  Also as KBMWRS suggested, I'm going to invite my muffler guy over who happens to own a couple fastbacks as well and have him crawl under the car to confirm he has the space to make something fit.

KBMWRS will be at NPD on Sat and will pick the Boss 302 Zbar up for me.  I'll go pay him a visit on Sunday and do a test fit that afternoon.

And to think how close to pulling the motor I got.   Glad I stood back and puffed a fatty first.  :lol

 

[69RestoRod]

And to think how close to pulling the motor I got.   Glad I stood back and puffed a fatty first.  :lol

 

Funny how that can put so many things into the correct prospective. Didn't know the z bar was a repop, good luck with the easier fix.

[Mach1Rider]

After looking at the Boss Z bar, its not going to work.

Just match it up to the 351's bar and you can see the differences of the lower bends of the arm location.

Just because I'm new here and feel like  :dh

[gtscode]

Since I couldn't make it for the drop in I don't know the pains incurred.  I say pull it and do it right!  I would be happy to spend the day helping out.

You should see how close the 390 exhaust manifold is to my power steering box and z-bar setup.  It has been a major pain for me as well.  The most recent exhaust might actually touch the z-bar when at rest.

Seriously let me know when you decide to pull it and r&r everything!

[cmayna]

  Obviously the original 67/68 289-302 Zbar that I was trying to use is not cutting it. Thus as mentioned I will first see if the Bos 302 Zbar resolves the issue.  Too many others claim it will, so why not give it a shot.  Even if there is a interference issue I think it will be
far easier to modify the boss 302 bar as compared to the current one. 

Justin, yes I was under Mike's car this past Saturday and saw how tight everything is.  I also noticed how the stock manifold also points slightly towards the Steering box. I doubt if there was more than a 1/8" gap between the exhaust and the box.

I have already called Lupe (local muffler guy) who is ready to come over and crawl under Shag to give his thumbs up or thumbs down.

[JeffTepper]

Craig:

If you need some help this Saturday, I have some free time........let me know.

[cmayna]

Jeff,
Thanks but I won't get the Zbar until Sunday when I go to Mike's and pick it up.While there, I'm going to help him reinstall his rear seat and then when I get home I plan to do a rough fit.

[Mustang Mike]

Unless you order custom $800+ FPA headers that run right into your slave cylinder! Sorry, still venting.........

One other thing to contemplate would be ditching the z-bar and using a hydraulic clutch.  If you have the slave cylinder mounted on the firewall, you can route the hydraulic line any way you want.  In other words, no clearance issues with pretty much ANY exhaust.