Angrypony is still cranking

[68angrypony]

Ok well after rewiring everything the car still keeps cranking as soon as you turn the key to the right. Not all the way where it feels spring loaded. but as soon as I insert the key and turn to the right. I went and got a new ignition switch and just put it in. Same result. So I am ruling out the ignition switch. I switched the S and I wires on the starter solenoid back and forth and either it does nothing or it just keeps cranking. I even tried to reverse the wiring from the starter and put the larger gauge wire on the right (closer to firewall) and the little wire on the left (close to battery) and as soon as I did that the starter solenoid sounded like it was getting just to it with the key off. Light its starting to do what it would do with the key turned. Think that is very odd. The starter solenoid is almost new. Could the non stop cranking be from the starter solenoid? What else could it possibly be? I am completely lost here.  :cry

[tarafied1]

still sounds like something is wired wrong. Here is a poor schematic...

in the below picture, the left large connector is the battery cable, the right is the starter cable. As stated before the red/blue small wire goes on the left "S" and the brown goes on the "I"

With a test light, the red/blue wire should be hot when the key is on. The brown shown be hot when the key is in start position only. The "solenoid" is really just a relay for the starter. The ignition switch just energizes the relay to send 12 volts from the battery to the starter. If wired correctly, you can jump from the battery to the "S" and the starter should engage.

[tarafied1]

Ok well after rewiring everything the car still keeps cranking as soon as you turn the key to the right. Not all the way where it feels spring loaded. but as soon as I insert the key and turn to the right.

That tells me you are hot on the "S" which is the ignition "ON" so you are engaging the relay as soon as you turn the key on. Make sure the battery cable and starter cable are correct and switch the small wires.

[68angrypony]

I have a starter like this. I have checked and double checked the wiring. Everything is matched up.

[AzPete]

Could the solenoid on the fender be bad, even if new.....

[tarafied1]

starter itself shouldn't matter, the starter cable should not have juice when the key is simply on. Yours does. Need to check for splices or bad wiring. The "S" terminal should only be hot in "start" position. Maybe starter relay (solinoid) could be fried inside energizing both small terminals when the key is on(?). Need to get the test light out to see...

[68angrypony]

I think I am going to try and hook the larger gauge wire coming off the starter to the Left (Battery Side) larger terminal off the starter solenoid and try and put the little wire to one of the smaller side posts. Possibly the I one. That is the only other solution that has been suggested that sounds resonable. I have been attaching the smaller wire to the Passenger side larger terminal. Sorry if I am  :dh for some of you. I just really would like to be able to start the car with the key lol. Have never done that yet.

[68angrypony]

starter itself shouldn't matter, the starter cable should not have juice when the key is simply on. Yours does. Need to check for splices or bad wiring. The "S" terminal should only be hot in "start" position. Maybe starter relay (solinoid) could be fried inside energizing both small terminals when the key is on(?). Need to get the test light out to see...

I'll test the side terminals for juice and see what I get.

[tarafied1]

can you post a picture of how it is wired now? The little wires shouldn't be hooked up to the large terminals. There are some smaller gauge wires from the alt on the bat connection, but the ignition switch wires shouldn't be.

[68angrypony]

These were taken right before I switched back the brown and blue/red wire on the small terminals. These were from yesterday. I forgot to post them.

[Midlife]

Your picture has the wrong wires (blue/red and brown) on the starter solenoid.  Swap those around. 

Your first post said: "I switched the S and I wires on the starter solenoid back and forth and either it does nothing or it just keeps cranking."  You want the condition of "nothing": no cranking, but you should see ~9V on the coil terminal on your first picture.

[68angrypony]

by nothing I meant when you turn the key all the way to the right it doesn't do anything. No cranking no nothing. The pictures were from yesterday. Since then I had corrected the wires.

[tarafied1]

You don't have a neutral safety switch do you? It would plug into the square four prong connector in this picture.

Need to make a jumper wire. That's why you get nothing when it's wired correctly.

[Midlife]

Aha!  Without a NSS attached or bypassed, no signal can get to the blue/red wire that is the signal to crank.  You need to provide a jumper on the 4-pin connector to the two blue/red wires.  Once that happens, the system should work correctly.

Now why didn't I think of that?  Someone give me a dope-slap and give Tarafied1 a cookie!

[tarafied1]

I didn't think of it either till I saw that picture!

[tarafied1]

just be carefull if you bypass the NSS. It will start in gear!

[AzPete]

Are both the battery cables on the same post? From the battery goes to the front, to the starter goes to the back.....or am I blind.

Or is that needed for that type starter?

[tarafied1]

yeah, it looks like it is but it would crank ALL the time regardless of the ignition switch position. Also what's the little wire on the big terminal starter side?

Or is that needed for that type starter?

does the starter have a relay too? It would make sense if it does and the big cable feeds 12v and the little wire triggers the relay.

[Fast68back]

yeah, it looks like it is but it would crank ALL the time regardless of the ignition switch position. Also what's the little wire on the big terminal starter side?

Trigger wire for the mini starter

[tarafied1]

thanks, just figured that out!

[AzPete]

Always learning........thanks

When in so deep to a problem, it is sometimes best to put things back to stock position and ensure that system is working. Then make changes again for the modification.

[tarafied1]

it should work once he bypasses the missing NSS. But yeah, I haven't seen a mini starter hooked up before... Kinda has two relays.

[68angrypony]

Aha!  Without a NSS attached or bypassed, no signal can get to the blue/red wire that is the signal to crank.  You need to provide a jumper on the 4-pin connector to the two blue/red wires.  Once that happens, the system should work correctly.

Now why didn't I think of that?  Someone give me a dope-slap and give Tarafied1 a cookie!

I was wondering what the 4 prong plug was for. How do I bypass it to see if it works? what all does that plu connect? Is it just to the neutal saftey switch on the tranny?

Thanks again everyone.

[Fast68back]

I believe the two male prongs are back up lights and the two female are NSS. Jumper the two females and the car should start, if you connect the solenoid like Craig and Mid mentioned

[tarafied1]

Rick is correct!