Author Topic: Side Scoops Picture Thread (Read 1172 times)

AtlantaSteve · « **on:** November, 06, 2009, 06:47:16 AM »

In chat last night I was talking about my side scoops and Jake asked me to start a thread on it, so here it goes.

What I've done so far:
*Taken out the rear windows(not looking forward to putting them back in)
*Removed the "Fingers" side trim that they put on most '66s
*Welded the holes that held the trim on shut on both sides
*ground the welds on the passenger side
*scuffed the paint on the passenger side(so i can put some rattle can primer over the new exposed metal. This is temporary, and not final body work.

So, I have a general rule about not doing too much welding on anything anyone will see on the car, because I have the cheesiest welder (Campbell Hausfield 90 dollar Flux-Core only Wire feed I bought at WalMart almost 10 years ago) and because I am not very good at it. This is my first real stab at body welding...I figured it's not such a big deal since all this work will be hidden under the scoops anyway.

So here's a few pictures. I took them on my iphone in my dim garage, so they suck, but hopefully you get the idea

The new scoops

New scoop compared to the "finger trim" that came off the car

Passenger Side panel. Holes welded shut, weld ground down, paint scuffed

Mockup of the scoop taped to the side of the car testing fit. Finally got the pretty close!!

closeup on some of the welds. You can see I discolored the metal because I don't grind gentle enough. Think I probably overheat it while grinding.

The welds, pre grinding, on the Driver side. Unfortunately, this is some of the best welding I've ever done. The passenger side I made some giant mountains that took forever to grind down. These are fairly flat and will require a lot less grinding to get smooth. Hopefully the poor quality photo does an ok job of masking my poor quality welds :)

Close up of the Driver's side pre-ground welds. Why I'd want to get close on these is a mystery.

So next up is to get some wax and grease remover, and clean up the sanded paint. Shoot some cheap primer over it, and then drill and mount the scoops. I SHOULD skim a little body filler over the welds, but I'm not sure if I'm gonna mess with it for now.

Any comments are welcome. If I'm screwing up let me know.

Fast68back · « **Reply #1 on:** November, 06, 2009, 07:36:32 AM »

Dude, did you take my camera? Your pictures are worse than mine......

lethal289 · « **Reply #2 on:** November, 06, 2009, 07:40:05 AM »

Wow steve, From those pics, I'd say your doing a fine job. did you notice any panel distortion or warping? I assume it was done in just one sitting. How exactly do those scoops mount?

AtlantaSteve · « **Reply #3 on:** November, 06, 2009, 07:53:02 AM »

Fast68back:Yeah the camera is crap isn't it? It's the lighting. The iPhone takes decent photos in the sunlight. In my dark garage, even with the twin 100 watt bulbs cooking, just no good. I'll try to get out there with the real camera tonight and snap a better shot or two.

lethal289: no no warping really. worked in short bursts. Weld the top hole a little, move to the middle, move to the bottom, etc etc. Grind for a bit, then back off for a bit.

the weld marks are pushed in a little bit, maybe from me taking off the metal, but I think also because I was using too much force when grinding (I know, let the tool do the work, but when you've got 3/8" blob of weld that has to be taken down I lose sight of it and start trying to manhandle that crap...why I try not to do too much body panel work) but they are now smooth to the touch, so, you know, I got that goin' for me.

Edit to add Forgot to say how they attach. Basically, they attach however you want them to attach :) Most common is to use pop-rivets. There are no holes on my scoops to start with. if I wanted to I could use some sort of panel adhesive. But I think I'm going to use nuts and bolts, and jbweld the bolts onto the scoops so they behave like studs. Dave tells me I'm probably making too much work for myself, but I want to be able to remove them without too much effort. We'll see if I chicken out and just go poprivet.

I'll continue taking pictures as I go. Hopefully with the better camera ;)

Steve

tarafied1 · « **Reply #4 on:** November, 06, 2009, 08:00:41 AM »

I admire people who try there hand at things. That's how you learn, and unlike the Great Nick, you are asking for advise. I think you already understand the heat/warp issue by your comments. It seams like you'll be fine! I can't weld for shart myself but I keep trying, get a little better all the time.

70_Fastback · « **Reply #5 on:** November, 06, 2009, 10:18:11 AM »

looking like you're doing a good job Steve. But I have to ask, why would you want to ever remove those scoops?

And if you go the bolt route, I assume, you'll JBweld the bolts heads to the middle portion of the scoop, or will you remove the bolt head and direct bond the threaded stud to the outer flange?

I would think if you went the center route and over tightened them, you may get that scoop to pucker and lift up at the edges. Leaving a small gap btween the scoop & quarter at the edges. But again, I don't know the rigidity of those glass scoops. I think rivets are a better choice. Of just checmically adhere theme. Are you wanting to smooth/feather them in, to be seamless - or not?

And @ Craig: I'm diggin the use of "shart". LoL. I saw that on another thread as well. :vic

AtlantaSteve · « **Reply #6 on:** November, 06, 2009, 10:28:28 AM »

Quote from: 70_Fastback on November, 06, 2009, 10:18:11 AM

looking like you're doing a good job Steve. But I have to ask, why would you want to ever remove those scoops?

Several reasons. First, They're going to be on the car until it goes to the booth. Then I'll take them off. I know that seems like a "So just drill out the rivets when it's time to paint, then put them back on" sorta deal. But drilling out those rivets in the tight box you have to work would be a bit of a pain as I don't have a right-angle drill. Also, I can drill the holes on the body a little bit bigger to put some adjustability into the system. When they're riveted, everything has to be just right...I think.

Quote

And if you go the bolt route, I assume, you'll JBweld the bolts heads to the middle portion of the scoop, or will you remove the bolt head and direct bond the threaded stud to the outer flange?

I will drill holes on the flange of the scoop, just as if I was gonna hold them on with rivets. Then I'll put a bolt (and washer) with the head inside the scoop on the flange. That way the head+washer are gonna be holding it in place. A dab of JBWeld around the head will hold it in place. Doesn't have to be a terrifically strong hold, I just want it to hold the bolts in place. I could just as easily use tape. once everything is bolted up, the bolt heads and nuts will be sandwiching the body and scoop flange together...the jbweld is just there to keep everything in place. Now that I think about it, I think I'll skip the jbweld. I liked the thought of it having a solid bolt to make sliding it onto the car easier, but now that seems overkill.

Quote

Are you wanting to smooth/feather them in, to be seamless - or not?

No, I'm gonna leave the seams visible. 2 reasons: 1)Easier. 2)I worry about any sort of body filler there cracking over time. I've heard people do it and get away with it, and I've heard of people get cracks after a couple of seasons. I don't mind the seamed look.

Quote

And @ Craig: I'm diggin the use of "shart". LoL. I saw that on another thread as well. :vic

Gotta hand it to ya, J. It's the shart!

lethal289 · « **Reply #7 on:** November, 06, 2009, 11:02:52 AM »

Steve, when you take more pictures, can you take some of the underneath of the scoops. So we can see the flange? :naug

tarafied1 · « **Reply #8 on:** November, 06, 2009, 11:27:02 AM »

Quote from: AtlantaSteve on November, 06, 2009, 10:28:28 AM

No, I'm gonna leave the seams visible. 2 reasons: 1)Easier. 2)I worry about any sort of body filler there cracking over time. I've heard people do it and get away with it, and I've heard of people get cracks after a couple of seasons. I don't mind the seamed look.

Yeah Baby! Thats the number 1 and 2 reasons I did mine that way too!!! :$$$ no shart, really it is!

70_Fastback · « **Reply #9 on:** November, 06, 2009, 01:14:15 PM »

Quote from: lethal289 on November, 06, 2009, 11:02:52 AM

Steve, when you take more pictures, can you take some of the underneath of the scoops. So we can see the flange? :naug

yeah. +1. I may not be envisioning them correctly.

RyanG85 · « **Reply #10 on:** November, 06, 2009, 06:49:36 PM »

Looking good. I'm considering bonding mine on. I assume the main reason for cracking is due to body flexing and improper bonding. I think with the added torque boxes and sub frame connectors, the flex will not be an issue. Just have to research the bonding methods a bit more.

tarafied1 · « **Reply #11 on:** November, 06, 2009, 07:16:15 PM »

Quote from: RyanG85 on November, 06, 2009, 06:49:36 PM

Looking good. I'm considering bonding mine on. I assume the main reason for cracking is due to body flexing and improper bonding. I think with the added torque boxes and sub frame connectors, the flex will not be an issue. Just have to research the bonding methods a bit more.

Regardless of what the bonding agent is, the sheet metal and fiberglass will ALWAYS expand and contract at different rates with temperature change. The seam holds up for a while, but in the end thermal dynamics wins over and it will crack or seperate.

AtlantaSteve · « **Reply #12 on:** November, 07, 2009, 07:09:51 PM »

My son's birthday is this weekend, so not a lot of work got done, nor will it. But I did get the one side cleaned off and sprayed with primer.

And I got a few more pictures, this time with the real camera.

Please to enjoy,

The ground welds on the passenger side.

Closer of the welds. Notice the little tiny holes I left because I can't weld for crap

If you can't do it right, cover it up :P

I think it makes the car look GREAT to have the primerd side look! The clearly visible insets where the welds were ground doesn't hurt.

and finally several pics of the backside of the scoops:

ANd finally to sortof help explain how I plan to do this, I haven't drilled the scoops yet, but I have this bolt and nut sandwiching just the edge of the flange. Just imagine that they were moved to the center of the flange, a hole drilled through the flange. A matching hole drilled on the car. The bolt passes through the hole in the flange, with the head inside the scoop, and through the hole in the body. inside the car, I'll thread a nut down on the bolt and tighten it, such that the body and flange are pressed together, sandwiched between the head and the nut.

Hopefully get started on that part this week.

lethal289 · « **Reply #13 on:** November, 07, 2009, 08:29:40 PM »

Good progress Steve. Great idea with the bolt. Sound much better then rivets to me. If i may, to me that bolt looks rather large for the job. I would think the smaller the hole through the fiberglass, the better off you would be. Also i would put as large of a washer that would fit on the flange that you can find. The entire set up in stainless would be an extra bonus if your at all concerned about rust.

AtlantaSteve · « **Reply #14 on:** November, 08, 2009, 04:44:47 AM »

Good thoughts, Jake. The 1/4 in bolt there is just the smallest bolt size they sell at my home depot. To go smaller I'd have to go with machine screws and wouldn't be able to slide an open wrench inside if I needed to while I snug it all up. I agree it's too big. Also like the stainless idea. Maybe I'll see if McMaster-Carr or Fastenal has something that will work. Thanks!

Shrinkdude · « **Reply #15 on:** November, 10, 2009, 05:29:42 AM »

They make smaller ones with hex heads on them. Fastenal should carry some. I have used as small as 4-40 hex heads before at work. Home Depot is only good for grass seed and plumbing stuff.... :craz

70_Fastback · « **Reply #16 on:** November, 10, 2009, 07:39:40 AM »

Quote from: Shrinkdude on November, 10, 2009, 05:29:42 AM

Home Depot is only good for grass seed and plumbing stuff.... :craz

... and pissing you off.

AtlantaSteve · « **Reply #17 on:** November, 12, 2009, 08:18:31 PM »

Time for updates.

Finally got some garage time tonight. I ground the driver's side welds down, drilled the holes in the body and scoop, and test bolted it up. I have to drill and mount the passenger side. The driver side still needs to be sanded and primed. I think I messed up priming before drilling on the passenger side.

The driver's side window is out of the car, which made working on the driver's side easier. I'm gonna leave the passenger window in for now so I can use it as reference when I put the driver's window BACK in. Makes this a more complicated job, but I gotta work in my own way :)

Then it'll be pretty much mounted until I finish the body work. So here is the proof:

Ground down welds.

Closer. You can see my welds aren't perfect...gaps. blah. I'll have to finish with body filler. Everytime I try to fill holes like that I make it worse, so I'll have to depend on body filler.

I drilled the holes on the side of the car (no pic of that, sorry) and then taped the scoop to the side of the car, and shot white spraypaint through the holes so I knew where to drill the scoops. Kinda klugey, but it was taped to the car and everytime I tried to scribe it I moved it...so the paint worked out well.

And here are a final couple of pictures of the driver's side scoop mounted:

(I know I got white overspray on it when I painted the holes...I'm always making messes like that :P )

And finally, I wanted to throw in some pictures of my badass welder. It is a 110V fluxcore wirefeed I got at WalMart for under 100 dollars about 10 years ago. It has been used by my brother to do tons of stuff, including build a go-kart, and it welded in my floorpans, and for now it's all I got.

RyanG85 · « **Reply #18 on:** November, 12, 2009, 08:41:29 PM »

Thats one funky welder! As long as it gets the job done!

I like your idea of bolting the scoop on and I'm also going to do that. I'm going to fiberglass the bolts in to hold them.

AtlantaSteve · « **Reply #19 on:** November, 13, 2009, 11:40:00 AM »

The problem I am dealing with right now is keeping the bolts from turning while I snug everything up. I am going to use nylon insert nuts (Dave pointed out how much of a pain it will be to access these once the interior and windows are back in. But those scoops are pretty long, and getting a wrench in there is way harder than I first thought. I'm going to try bonding the bolts to the scoop, (like you suggested, fiberglassing them in) but this will be a challenge as I'm using washers, so I'll have to bond the hex-head to the washer, then the washer to the glass, and I'm worried about that holding during excessive torquing. Last night I just used regular old nuts, so they were easy to turn onto the bolts. I might just stick with the regular nuts and use blue loctite and call it good enough.

This weekend (if I get 2 seconds...not looking very good) I'll try to snag some pictures of the bolts installed in the scoops.

Steve

lethal289 · « **Reply #20 on:** November, 13, 2009, 01:02:48 PM »

Quote from: AtlantaSteve on November, 13, 2009, 11:40:00 AM

This weekend (if I get 2 seconds...not looking very good) I'll try to snag some pictures of the bolts installed in the scoops.

You nailed my next question. Cant wait to see them. Either way steve it looks like progress.

Yep with that pic of your welder, you win the "ugliest welder award" for sure. Can you even hook up a shielding gas to that thing?

Fast68back · « **Reply #21 on:** November, 13, 2009, 01:05:46 PM »

You do know if you use a computer chair rather than a folding chair your welder will become mobile, right? Although, I shouldnt knock it, my welder sat UNDER my workbench, then I loaned it to my Ex GFs dad, he returned it with a mobile welding cart....