Author Topic: Drivetrain help needed.... (Read 1415 times)

Johnny M · « **on:** October, 15, 2009, 09:04:20 AM »

OK guys,
I know there's been a few threads about transmissions and rear ends but i need to open my own can of worms.

I need some help getting my drivetrain sorted.

This is what I have so far.

•   FE 428 – running about 400hp+
•   4 Spd Toploader - HEH-BT 1965 Mustang 289 close ratio (25 Spline)
•   9” Rear end – I have stripped it down and it has 28 Spline shafts, small bearing and after counting the gears its look to be a 3.00 gearset. (39/13). How do i identify the type of 3rd member? Pics below.
•   Zoom 30000 Series Clutches
•   Lakewood Bellhousing for FE motor and Top loader

I am looking to make a street car that it at home burning off the lights as well as cruising on the highway. I have the opportunity to get another 3rd member in exchange for some parts I am owed. (Trac-loc 3.50 or 3.73 gear ratio).

I think I am going to sell the top loader and go with the TKO. Will I be able to use the Bellhousing/Clutch with a TKO?

Any guru’s out there that don’t mind taking a call and talking drivetrains? All advice and info is welcome.

Thanks,

Johnny

Starfury · « **Reply #1 on:** October, 15, 2009, 10:21:53 AM »

I think a TKO would be the way to go. However, I think you'll have to change the bellhousing. IIRC, big block toploaders have slightly shorter input shafts than the small block versions. TKO's have even longer input shafts set up for fox body 5.0's. You need an adaptor plate on a small block bellhousing to space the tranny back far enough to get the geometry right. That'd put you even farther away from the pilot bearing.

I'd give Bruce at Modern Driveline a call and see what he recommends.

Just spoke to Bruce. Great guy and he can sort ALL my drivetrain problems for $3.7k....

If that Dollar keeps dropping I'll struggle not to kill my credit card very soon....

daveSanborn · « **Reply #2 on:** October, 15, 2009, 11:37:18 AM »

Johnny,

If it were me.....

While the Toploader is a stout tranny that will withstand all kinds of abuse/power, it lacks an overdrive gear. What makes these older cars more streetable is the ability to shift into an overdrive gear and chill out on the RPM's for a few minutes. With your fuel prices being what they are.... you may even want to consider a T56 = two overdrive gears.

Toss the 3.00 ratio open rearend chunk in favor of a 3.50-3.73 ratio TracLok unit. Your 428 motor will spin one tire forever. It's fun to do burnouts, but it's better to have some semblance of actual traction.

Midlife · « **Reply #3 on:** October, 15, 2009, 03:06:48 PM »

If it truly is a street car with only rare to occasional freeway driving, you cannot beat the toploader for durability and reliability. Yes, you give up the overdrive, but are you really going to need it? Just get a trac-loc rear end at 3.00 to 3.5:1 ratio with that FE and you'll be pulling stumps and laying rubber anytime you want.

daveSanborn · « **Reply #4 on:** October, 16, 2009, 05:21:34 AM »

Quote

but are you really going to need it?

That's the BIG question.....

If 90% of your driving will be under 50-55 MPH, an overdrive transmission isn't really necessary and the Toploader would move back to the best choice.

johnpro · « **Reply #5 on:** October, 16, 2009, 08:08:30 AM »

Quote from: Johnny M on October, 15, 2009, 09:04:20 AM

9” Rear end – I have stripped it down and it has 28 Spline shafts, small bearing and after counting the gears its look to be a 3.00 gearset. (39/13). How do i identify the type of 3rd member? Pics below.

The non-recessed bolts on the carrier housing says that you already have a traction-lok.

BobV · « **Reply #6 on:** October, 16, 2009, 08:21:06 AM »

Quote from: johnpro on October, 16, 2009, 08:08:30 AM

The non-recessed bolts on the carrier housing says that you already have a traction-lok.

Umm, you've got that backwards - flat surface is open, recessed pockets around the ring gear bolts = TracLok. The carrier in the picture is open.

johnpro · « **Reply #7 on:** October, 16, 2009, 08:26:54 AM »

Quote from: BobV on October, 16, 2009, 08:21:06 AM

Umm, you've got that backwards - flat surface is open, recessed pockets around the ring gear bolts = TracLok. The carrier in the picture is open.

:roulette

Ok. Guess I shouldn't post before the second cup of coffee. You're 100% correct. Brain is beginning to shift to 2nd gear as we speak.

silverblueBP · « **Reply #8 on:** October, 16, 2009, 08:27:38 AM »

Bob's correct...

Shown above is an open 28 spline spool (on left) and a traction loc “Posi” 28 spline 2 pin spool ( to the right).

Taken from kevinstang's site

Johnny M · « **Reply #9 on:** October, 16, 2009, 08:46:48 AM »

OK, so I have an open diff, thats going on ebay along with the two Top Loaders i have and the Hurst shifter and linakge kit.

I want to have that overdrive gear just in case i head for France and do some big highway miles.

Anyone got a TKO500? Opinions?

Have a look at what Bruce can supply. Quote attached.

johnpro · « **Reply #10 on:** October, 16, 2009, 09:05:20 AM »

Quote from: Johnny M on October, 16, 2009, 08:46:48 AM

Anyone got a TKO500? Opinions?

Get the TKO600. It's less than $100 more, handles up to 100 ft. lbs. more torque and has a better overdrive gear (.64).

I have the TKO600 in my '69 behind the 408. The car dynoed with 416 ft. lbs. of torque at the wheels and I get 17-18 mpg on the freeway in 5th gear with a 3.89 rear end.

Johnny M · « **Reply #11 on:** October, 16, 2009, 10:41:27 AM »

Quote from: johnpro on October, 16, 2009, 09:05:20 AM

Get the TKO600. It's less than $100 more, handles up to 100 ft. lbs. more torque and has a better overdrive gear (.64).

I have the TKO600 in my '69 behind the 408. The car dynoed with 416 ft. lbs. of torque at the wheels and I get 17-18 mpg on the freeway in 5th gear with a 3.89 rear end.

Bruce speced the TKO 500 because I already have a 10 spline Organic clutch, if I want to go with the 600 i will have to replace the clutch with a 26 spline unit.

The Kevlar clutch will cost me about $475 and then an extra $100 for the TKO600...is it worth $600?

johnpro · « **Reply #12 on:** October, 16, 2009, 12:27:52 PM »

Quote from: Johnny M on October, 16, 2009, 10:41:27 AM

Bruce speced the TKO 500 because I already have a 10 spline Organic clutch, if I want to go with the 600 i will have to replace the clutch with a 26 spline unit.

The Kevlar clutch will cost me about $475 and then an extra $100 for the TKO600...is it worth $600?

Honestly, it would take a lot of driving for the $600 to pay for itself. Now if you feel you're going to need that Kevlar clutch, anyway, or were looking for an excuse to buy it ...

Starfury · « **Reply #13 on:** October, 16, 2009, 09:39:01 PM »

I like the gearing of the TKO 600 better. 1-4 are closer than in the TKO 500, making it a little more fun to drive and keeping 1st from being useless with lower rear gearing.

daveSanborn · « **Reply #14 on:** October, 19, 2009, 05:31:59 AM »

Johnny,

What is the $160 "adapter plate" on MDL's invoice? Is it the bell housing? Or something else? What caught my eye was the SBF engines listed on the application of the adapter plate. Your engine is a FE 428 motor, make sure you get the correct "adapter plate".

As discussed, with the HP and more importantly TQ that your 428 will be making, I strongly recommend spending the money up front for the added strength of the TKO600.

Johnny M · « **Reply #15 on:** October, 19, 2009, 06:00:02 AM »

Quote from: daveSanborn on October, 19, 2009, 05:31:59 AM

Johnny,

What is the $160 "adapter plate" on MDL's invoice? Is it the bell housing? Or something else? What caught my eye was the SBF engines listed on the application of the adapter plate. Your engine is a FE 428 motor, make sure you get the correct "adapter plate".

As discussed, with the HP and more importantly TQ that your 428 will be making, I strongly recommend spending the money up front for the added strength of the TKO600.

Dave,
That plate is for the 4 spd top loader spec Lakewood bellhousing I already have. I have to finalise the items on that estimate and i will double check with Bruce that this is the correct plate for my motor.

After chatting to you Saturday I have decided to also replace the clutch and go with the TKO600...

Thanks for the heads up.

Johnny

johnpro · « **Reply #16 on:** October, 20, 2009, 08:28:09 AM »

Quote from: Johnny M on October, 19, 2009, 06:00:02 AM

After chatting to you Saturday I have decided to also replace the clutch and go with the TKO600...

Wise choice, IMHO. You won't be sorry.

Johnny M · « **Reply #17 on:** October, 23, 2009, 01:51:24 AM »

Does this 3rd member look alright to you? 3.50 Trac-Lock

daveSanborn · « **Reply #18 on:** October, 23, 2009, 05:17:13 AM »

Anymore pictures?

Starfury · « **Reply #19 on:** October, 23, 2009, 09:42:54 AM »

Pattern looks ok, but I'd like to see a couple closer pics, as well as some of the gears sans marking compound. It'd be a good idea to check lash too.