Shag has gone Cleveland

[cmayna]

Opentracker and JeffTepper have been quietly pushing me for more umph!! and since I wanted Shag to be a little different, just like it's owner, I said why the frick not?  Found this engine locally on Craigslist.  '72 4 barrel cobra jet 351 (335 family series) long block.  It was rebuilt back in early 01 by a local hotrod machine shop and never ran.  Never completely assembled.  The owner, a doctor dies shortly after the engine comes out of the shop.   Ms Widow hangs on to his collection of Mustangs and parts for 8+ years and just recently decides it was time to let it go.

A local guy buys the whole lot of 4 cars, tons of parts and this engine this last month.  It was a "buy it all or none" per her attorneys.  He got a 66 Shelby out of it and sold the other cars, finally this engine.

JeffTepper knows how fond I am to Pantera's (well.....actually this hot local mom who owns one) and have always wanted a little piece of Pantera.  When I find out that this engine came out of a 72 Pantera, how could I say no?  I say DIAAMMMM !!!! :pep

So yesterday I drive 40 miles to check it out, go for it and the seller offers to haul it to my warehouse if I pay for gas and toll bridge fee.  Got another engine stand and a few parts for the engine out of it as well.

Today I spent the morning cleaning up a bunch of surface rust that was in the valley as well as the outside of the block.  Cleaned up pretty well.  Have not turned the crank over for I am scared to death of doing it since it has sat so long.  Thinking of dumping a bunch of 20/50 racing oil all over the top and bottom side.  Let it soak for awhile and then after I grow some big KaHona's try turning the crank.......

Yes, you will see some surface rust on the crank's counter weights.  Not sure what or if I am going to touch it.  I have no plans to use the rebuilt 4barrel heads.  Will probably sell them and get some 2 barrel heads for better lower end torque or get some alumunum ones.

[pnandy]

boo i thought shag was gonna be sportn a 347 or 331 u still have time to back out and get one

whats the trans gonna be?

[Sacbill]

Cool deal!  Will it be stroked out to a 408?   :naug

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Currently playing on the Rock Show: Warren Zevon & David Lindley - Casey Jones

[cmayna]

No strokin'.....engine wise.   T5Z trannie behind it.  For the price I paid and the inches I got,  I couldn't say no.

[pnandy]

so is it gonna be running in time for next years knotts trip?

[Sluggo]

Why do you have what is obviously a trash can labeled "Trash"?

[cmayna]

Sluggo, That trash can is for all your comments to go into.  Yes Shag is going to '10 Knotts.  Pushing for Xmas fireup.

[lethal289]

Stroke it to 408 and drive the hell out of it.  I'd disassemble it and have it hot dipped again anyway.  Who knows what the passages look like.

[monkeystash]

Craig, that is awesome!  The engine looks great, don't sweat it.  A little trick I saw at a machine shop was they had a squirt bottle with very thin motor oil in it, and the sprayed down engine parts to keep them lubed and keep rust away.  I thought it was a neat idea.

Check out CHI for heads:

 http://www.chiheads.com.au/

[gotstang]

Craig, you don't need no steenkin' 2V heads. Get a set of good 4V heads, make sure you have high compression (at least 10.5:1) and do some reading on clevelands. With the right intake (maybe an old Torker?) and a custom cam by a cleve gooroo like MME, you could have a real barnstormer with good low end, and you wouldn't need any expensive aftermarket heads either.  :naug A set of 3.89 gears and tall-ish tires would keep fairly sane revs on the highway with the tall OD in that T5z and really wind up the ole cleveland.  :danc

[Fast68back]

So....Engine has been decided, trans has been decided. Whatcha gonna do 'bout a clutch and cooling for that clevo?

[Sluggo]

If you really want to be different, buy these heads.
http://www.araoengineering.com/Ford/clevelnd.htm

[Meyer65]

Looks awesome Craig!

If an engine has no heads, isn't it technically a short block and not a long block though?

What cam is in there?

[cmayna]

Derek,

It came with the heads and they're rebuilt.  A little rusty on the top side so I don't know what I should do.  Maybe have them disassembled and hot dipped like what Jake suggested.  Here they are. 

The cam is SSI-10354.  Here's the specs:

Cam Timing:   .    050           Opens         Closes     .050 DUR.       Lobe Centers
@.050             INTAKE:       8* btdc    36* abdc         224*            104* ATDC
Tappet Lift      EXHAUST:   47* bbdc      5* atdc         232*            112* BTDC

[Starfury]

Sweet!  I love cleve-powered cars:D  You'll definitely have to bring Shag down to SLO once you get everything put together.

I'd run the 4V heads.  You can get exhaust port restrictors that improve charge velocity to help with low end.  And like Gotstang said, a good custom cam with high compression will turn that into a monster motor.

I gotta say, though, I'd be suprised if that T5z lasted more than a couple years behind that motor.  Cleves tend to break things, and that's not a super strong tranny.  If I was driving it, it'd probably last all of a day:P

[cmayna]

Tad,  I agree about the T5Z but I'll run it until it breaks.  If it breaks I might put it in Red and get a TKO or something for Shag down the road.  Meanwhile, need to get this engine done.


I will say that getting this engine has really gotten me fired up to finish Shag.  One major excuse is gone.

[cmayna]

So....Engine has been decided, trans has been decided. Whatcha gonna do 'bout a clutch and cooling for that clevo?

Rick,
Haven't thought about cooling as of yet but odds are it will be at least a 4 core desert cooler or aluminum.  Going stock clutch linkage modified by ORP. Not sure yet about actual clutch yet.  Any suggestions? 

[garner67]

Nice purchase.  That engine will really make Shag unique. 

It'll be interesting to see what it needs to freshen it up.

[Starfury]

One of the guys on mustangforums has a 383 stroker that has repeatedly killed 'high performance' small block street clutches.  After some calls to just about every mfg, he settled on a McLeod dual-disc setup.  While I doubt you'll need the dual-disc clutch, it seems like McLeod makes some really, really good clutches for high-torque street applications.

[Sacbill]

Rick,
Haven't thought about cooling as of yet but odds are it will be at least a 4 core desert cooler or aluminum.  Going stock clutch linkage modified by ORP. Not sure yet about actual clutch yet.  Any suggestions?  

Don't know if this works for you, but this setup from Flex-a-Lite is pretty trick.  It has an electric fan integrated with an aluminum radiator with extended heat sinks at the ends.  Pretty sure you can get it from Summit.



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Currently playing on the Rock Show: The Allman Brothers Band - Whipping Post (Live 1971)

[daveSanborn]

I have no plans to use the rebuilt 4barrel heads.

Craig,

Very few, if any, aftermarket heads will outflow those 4V heads.  I'd run those MF'ers in a heartbeat!

If you're dead set on not using those 4V heads, DO NOT give them away.  Hey definitely have some value to them!

[tarafied1]

Craig,

Very few, if any, aftermarket heads will outflow those 4V heads.  I'd run those MF'ers in a heartbeat!

If you're dead set on not using those 4V heads, DO NOT give them away.  Hey definitely have some value to them!

tHey are probably worth as much as the short block or more!

[cmayna]

Craig,

Very few, if any, aftermarket heads will outflow those 4V heads.  I'd run those MF'ers in a heartbeat!

If you're dead set on not using those 4V heads, DO NOT give them away.  Hey definitely have some value to them!

Dave,
Odds are I will be using the heads afterall.  I'd love to stay as stock as possible and yet kick some buttock. Tomorrow I'm going to contact a local machine shop to see what it will cost to  disassemble, check valve grind and reassemble the heads.

 

[Starfury]

I'd also ask them to see about adding a set of those port plates to improve flow velocity.

[daveSanborn]

Craig,

Have the machine shop determine what the combustion chamber size is on those heads.  They should be "quench chamber" heads at 58CC (?).  With this said, be careful that the compression ratio does not rise so high that you'll need to either "de-tune" the motor (by retarding the timing) or run a higher than desired octane fuel.

I love the 4V Clevelands, but the stock "somewhat higher" compression ratios is something to keep your eye on.

The last 4V Cleveland I ran turned out to be a PITA as I had to retard the timing a hair unless I was feeding a 50/50 mix of racing fuel (109 Octane) and Premium Unleaded (93 Octane).  Either way though, that motor in your car will burn through a set of tires easily.