Front end changes...

[AzPete]

OK, I have installed stock perches and Opentrackers Street upper and lower control arms in the last few months. Car aligns good and no driving problems. Then, along comes this offer for a set of new roller perches (Thanks Mid). Now, I have not been one to either have to or not have to do them. I looked at if there would be enough change for the cost....you know, limited budget type life. I also am not one to turn down a deal. So, over to Midlifes cave this am and do the switch.

Started at 9am. Just compressed the spring in place and swapped the drivers side. Found an odd thing as these perches did not have any rubber pads for the springs to set on. Hmmmmm. Drilled holes and used the pads from the near new stock units. Install is nice since the bolts to mount the perch with are removable. A bit of side pressure on the spring and all is back in place.

OK, delay time as we decided the shocks might as well be replaced. An hour or so later, we find the only set in Panama City, a set of Monroes at O'Rielly's.

Now, back to work. Same deal on the passenger side. Used the compressor with the hex head on top, hooked it to the 3rd spring coil from the bottom, (this was with the weight of the car on the lower arm), and used two bars across the top of the coil tower to hook the other end to. Compress the spring and raise the car to let the arm lower down. R&R'e the perch (done about 1:30 I think) and it is adult beverage time.

Now, the drive home sucked big time. I stopped after about 5 miles and made sure all was in place on the front end. I had front tire squeal above 30 mph. The car was real wild to drive above 40 mph as it was all over the road. WTF>>>>>no changes were made to the alignment. Not even one bolt touched. Bounced the car....all moved good and normal but the car sat a bit high. No, the adult beverages were not doing it either. It was even dragging the gravel in the RV park as it left a trail.

Called Mid to verify my thoughts as to the alignment should not have been changed. He suggested to drive it as was my plan. Car still bounced fine and all was in place.

Hop in the car to go to dinner and a cruise in and it is like I had been dreaming. At first, it was wild again, then within a couple of miles, the car was driving just like it always did. Still no changes done to the front. All is still in the same places. Have no idea as to what made the change but the car drives good and it looks to sit just a tad bit higher. Front end checks good.

As to the new perches...I really need more driving to evaluate them better. I will say speed bumps feel much softer and a couple of corners I ran thru felt pretty good. Oh, and the pink stripes are hidden good. The new shocks took care of the rattle I had in the front too. More testing soon.

[tarafied1]

weird, I finally found my original perches so I think I will attempt to make some for my car. Keep us posted on the bizarre behaviour

[Opentracker]

What .... You don't like the pink stripes





You have an odd issue going on there. I have never herd anyone having problems after installing the roller perches (no matter who made them). The car should feel better and be safer to drive. There is something going on. Changing perches shouldn't change ride height. If the ride height is higher, the toe angle changed to more toe-in and that's what is giving you the odd feeling.

Must be the curse.

[AzPete]

Ahhhhhh, I forgot about that.....

I am betting that one coil must not have set in perfect. I never heard any noises driving as if anything popped into place. It all looks good this am so I will just drive on.

The pink stripes are no problem, always like seeing a bit of pink.....

[Opentracker]

If it was a coil out of place it would have just slid into position, I don't think you would have herd a pop. Ford didn't use the rubber pads on the early cars and I don't use them at all on any of our cars. That may be the issue. The rubber pad will stop the coil from seating properly in the early perches.

[AzPete]

Hmmmmmmmmm. Will look into that.

[Opentracker]

Also, the 620 and some other aftermarket springs have a bit larger winde than the original springs for the early cars. They are known for not seating well in the early perches. The end with the tab has a deep and narrow well for the spring to sit in. The later perches don't.

[AzPete]

Yea, I can see that being a possible problem. I will look into these and see what I find.

The car sitting higher may only be because of the initial miss-positioning of something. Now that it drives correct, it could just be a mental thing....lol. Thanks for the info. Couldn't see the perches making the car drive, just have to sort things out.

[AzPete]

Just drove it again.....it sucks again. It appears that the front rises a bit on accel. which is normal. But does not settle until hard braking. During the rise, it squeals the tires and steers wild. I guess it is parked until I can get this up again and see what is happening. The car bounces smooth when parked.

All we did was replace the perches plus a new set of shocks. Did not even fully remove the springs. Crap.

[AzPete]

Another ride, some better info. If I brake hard and accel real slow, the car drives great. Dips and bumps seem to be ok. If I accel hard, the front will not return to normal until hard braking. No noises, just poor steering.

I crawled around in the heat a bit and it appears that there is at least one, maybe two areas the perches just touch the inside of the UCA's. I can see some shiny areas on the UCA's. Sounds the same as Dne' had on her front end build. I will have to file a small area in cooler weather.

Not sure that is enough as it seems like not enough of a mark to hold the front up. At this point, I don't know.

[AzPete]

Reason for good drive last night and just now......had the wife in the pass. seat. With both of us in the car, it drives fine....until a real hard accel. where it steers odd until the front comes down a bit. Never had this reaction before the recent work. Damn...........

[Opentracker]

There is little to no chance that the perches are causing the front to say up. Too much toe-in is causing the front end to rise and stay up under acceleration. With the rubber perches, the front end wouldn't rise under accel. as much as it does with rollers. That would explain why it does it now and not before the work was done. You may have had too much toe-in and didn't know it. Just a thought.

[AzPete]

I am going to get under it this evening and just have a good look. Then, the first of the week, I am going to run it buy the local classic front end guy here and see what he thinks. He did the alignment after the last new stuff was added.

[Midlife]

I'm no expert, but doesn't some of the symptoms remind one of the problem one encounters putting Granada spindles on 65/66 Mustangs?  Damn...I can't remember the proper term, but what happens is that the front rises under acceleration and won't come down.

[silverblueBP]

I'm no expert, but doesn't some of the symptoms remind one of the problem one encounters putting Granada spindles on 65/66 Mustangs?  Damn...I can't remember the proper term, but what happens is that the front rises under acceleration and won't come down.

Do a search on the other site, I remember that thread, but can't remember what the solution was.

[Sluggo]

Sounds like one of two things to me.

The shocks suck.
The spring/springs come unseated and hang up on the shock tower plates.

[AzPete]

Yes, their problems mostly went towards the use of Granada spindles. Some never had the fix resolved.

I have no idea what is on this but I ASSUME it is all stock. Normal drum brakes, ORP's street uppers, lowers, and roller perches, springs seem good as ride height is good, new Monroe shocks, stock torsion bar, 15" wheels, 195/60/15 tires. Car was power steering but all has been removed and still using the power steering tie rod ends and such. Wheel bearings I purchased were for the stock '66 Mustang and it all fit good. Front end is tight.

I am hoping it is just an adjustment as John mentioned. I cannot imagine any of these parts being the problem.........

Springs are not changing as far as I can tell. May pull the shocks and try it.

[lethal289]

didnt cloney have an excellent write up on it. From what i remember pete its exactly your symptoms.  well if they come back anyway.   I can't remember his web address, and since i switched comps, im screwed there.  rick do you know?  I did a search over there, but you know how that goes.

[AzPete]

Believe me, mine has not gone away.....

I found the site, it came out that his was a Granada swap problem.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/showtopic.php?tid/1505391/post/2029294/hl/acceleration/fromsearch/1/#2029294
http://www.sunflower.com/~vervaecke/our_story.htm

Mine should be all stock drums.....

Removed the new shocks, same problem............

[Opentracker]

It has got to be the alignment. If not, even though the perches were free, if the alignment shop says you need a new parts, I will send them to you for free. We will get this fixed. I want to know what's going on. We have over 1,600 sets of our roller perches on the road and I have never herd of this problem.

Could still be the curse.

[AzPete]

I will contact the alignment shop in the morning and see what he says. Thanks.

[silverblueBP]

It would be interesting to see what the toe is, I never had a problem with 1/8" toe in and I've been playing with toe out and have not had the squealing/scrubbing problem yet. I'm currently running 7/32" toe out!

[AzPete]

I did install a Monte Carlo bar about 3-4 weeks ago and also a new Export brace that was a tighter fit than the other one I removed. Never noticed any difference to speak of other than a bit of an improvement in handling. Now this.

I will see if I can find the specs it was aligned to. I don't think I have them.

[Midlife]

Bump Steering is the term I was looking for!

[Fast68back]

Sounds like they are hanging up on the upper arm like you said Dne' had with her arms/perches. You could probably get under there and grind some of the upper arm to make room for them to fully travel.