Author Topic: No change (bad update) (Read 1153 times)

blue65coupe · « **on:** July, 25, 2009, 11:05:42 AM »

Don't know what more to say. Timing at 2* (might have bumped) so I moved back to 8*. Let car warm up with some throttle hits and everything seemed good. Took car down road for an easy cruise and 1/2 mile later, no dice. Got it cranked to limp home and she just stalls. Wait 10 minutes, finally get a rough crank, limp home, get in driveway and she's good. Pull to basement and start messing with it running. Good idle, good throttle, hold throttle, starts to stumble, then all to hell. Timing still at 8*, e-fan on and blowing extremely hot air, can't see any fuel being shot into carb, coil extremely hot (don't know what they normally feel like), choke open, sounds like a spark knock when it's stumbling. Don't know what to do so I'm gonna wait for a guy (that obiviously knows more) to come over and give me a hand. I may install a fuel pressure guage to see if that gives me any more info. POS.

silverblueBP · « **Reply #1 on:** July, 25, 2009, 02:16:14 PM »

Remind us again, did you tear into the carb to rule that out? Elec or mech fuel pump?

For a quick test you could pump gas into a gallon jug and time it, should be whatever the pump's rated at.

blue65coupe · « **Reply #2 on:** July, 25, 2009, 02:53:30 PM »

Gas into can will probably happen tomorrow. Beats buying a guage. Too pissed today.

mechanical fuel pump and (don't slap me) I did not tear into the carb. Took it off and thought, "I'm gonna screw this up" and put it back on. Don't know enough about 'em but I guess there's only one way to learn. Gonna suck. The only thing that has changed now from then is the sending unit. BTW, they sent me a 5/16 and I had a 3/8. Not that it matters due to the fuel inlet.

silverblueBP · « **Reply #3 on:** July, 25, 2009, 03:50:48 PM »

Sure sounds like a fuel pump gone bad or crap clogging the carb. If the pump is good then what could it hurt to R&R the carb?

blue65coupe · « **Reply #4 on:** July, 25, 2009, 05:40:43 PM »

I'm gonna check the pump if I get a chance tomorrow. I'll get it to stall and then disconnect the line to see. If all is well I'm gonna pull the carb, tear into it, and...and....and learn about carbs I guess. Never messed with one and there's a lot of "stuff". WTH, didn't learn the brakes by letting someone else do it.

silverblueBP · « **Reply #5 on:** July, 25, 2009, 06:11:52 PM »

Thataboy! Kick its ass :bash

monkeystash · « **Reply #6 on:** July, 25, 2009, 08:45:25 PM »

Duane, that sure sounds like vapor lock or gas boiling in the carb. Keep your fuel line from touching hot parts. Also, try relocating the coil, to keep it cooler too. Good luck troubleshooting.

blue65coupe · « **Reply #7 on:** July, 26, 2009, 09:22:30 AM »

Ryan, haven't completely ruled that out. I'll be taking some extra measure for the fuel line but am not 100% convinced the e-fan isn't having some effect. If I can't diagnose it through pump/carb, I'm gonna (sigh) take the e-fan off and install old one. What a PIA.

cmayna · « **Reply #8 on:** July, 27, 2009, 06:03:23 AM »

Duane,
Do you have a spacer between the carb and intake? Yes, check pump. Is the tank original? Have you cleaned out the fuel line from tank to pump?

Sounds like job security to me.

blue65coupe · « **Reply #9 on:** July, 27, 2009, 07:31:25 AM »

Spacer between carb, new tank, blown out lines. Had to play golf yesterday so hope to get on it today.

Meyer65 · « **Reply #10 on:** July, 27, 2009, 08:31:53 AM »

Quote from: blue65coupe on July, 26, 2009, 09:22:30 AM

Ryan, haven't completely ruled that out. I'll be taking some extra measure for the fuel line but am not 100% convinced the e-fan isn't having some effect. If I can't diagnose it through pump/carb, I'm gonna (sigh) take the e-fan off and install old one. What a PIA.

Did you replace the fuel filter(s)? If not, that's definitely something to do. If it is clogeed and not that old, then you probably have crap in your gas tank and it should be replaced.

Re: the electric fan. Instead of removing it and putting the old on on, run a switch to somewhere under the dash (I assume you used the ignition switch as your 12v source, or did you go to the solenoid) then you can flick it off while driving, give her some gas, and see what happens (I wouldn't leave the fan off for too long but as long as your moving a decent speed I don't think it should be a problem for a little bit)

Next, I would replace the fuel pump if you have not done so already. If you're running a stock one they're only like $25 and super easy to replace WHile I did that job I'd disconnect the line at the tank and blow compressed air through it (have a bucket or something at the other end) if crap come out, again I would replace the tank.

Assuming there is crud in the line, hopefully your filter did its job and the engine should still be clean. If the line/filter are clean, then next I would move onto the carb. What carb are you running, an autolite 4100 or something aftermarket?

Sorry if you've tried any of this stuff, I haven't been following your ordeal closely, although I know it's been a problem for you for some time.

To quote Sluggo:

"Don't let it beat you. It may turn out to be simpler than you think."

blue65coupe · « **Reply #11 on:** July, 27, 2009, 08:45:18 AM »

The pump was new when we did the overhaul a few years ago, probably has 1000 miles on it. When I replaced the tank (2 months ago) I blew out the lines and replaced the filter. It's been checked and all looks good. I could run a switch for the fan but have it direct wired into the battery. It has the probe in the radiator to allow it to run and circulate air even after shutoff. Problem first showed it's ugly head upon the car overheating one time. Replaced ignition stuff, fuel tank, sending unit, fuel filter, blew out lines, etc. I bought the biggest e-fan I could fit on the car. I messed with it the other day (adjusting setting) while it was acting up to rule out if that had anything to do with it. It seemed not to affect the problem but I ran out of time to be 100%. My next step is going to be to let the pump run into a container to see if it's pumping properly. Then I'll play with the fan and finally the carb. Problem with messing with the fan too much right now is the 95* days. Will have to play with that one night. 2 months ago I would've replaced the pump in a second but have gotten tired of throwing blind money at it. On a lighter note, played 9 yesterday and shot my best score ever. Turned out much better than working on the car would have.

daveSanborn · « **Reply #12 on:** July, 27, 2009, 12:36:46 PM »

Quote

Wait 10 minutes, finally get a rough crank, limp home, get in driveway and she's good. Pull to basement and start messing with it running. Good idle, good throttle, hold throttle, starts to stumble, then all to hell. Timing still at 8*, e-fan on and blowing extremely hot air, can't see any fuel being shot into carb, coil extremely hot (don't know what they normally feel like),

Coils should not ever be so hot as to feel like you're going to burn yourself by touching one. They'll be warm... even "hot", but when they get "extremely hot".... and the car starts after sitting for ten minutes.... it's an indication that the coil is cutting out.

What type of coil do you have and how old is it? Note that some aftermarket coils are not designed to be mounted horizontally, such as MSD Blaster coils.... unless you have the "off road" gel cooled model.

blue65coupe · « **Reply #13 on:** July, 27, 2009, 05:33:07 PM »

New coil Dave, O'reilly special, don't remember the brand. Changed it along with all the other ignition stuff when this started.

Checked pump tonight, all looked good. Was starting car (had Dad there) and he noticed smoke coming from + batt cable. We switch and I notice it's coming from the e-fan + wire. I take it loose and put it onto the "I" terminal of the solenoid. Car cranks, idles, and as soon as the fan cuts on, the car immediately dies. Adjust setting on fan, crank car, turn down setting to kick fan on, car dies. Hold fan cable to post and no problem. Hmmm. Clip the connector and sit the fan wire directly between the post and clamp. All looks good. Saweeeet. Take car for spin and run, sputter, run, surge, run, sputter, die. Get out and yank the fan wire from the post. Takes a minute to crank but does and I limp back home with an occasional surge of power. It feels like it's just not taking gas at all. Have to get home quick (well, pretty slow but I didn't have time to mess with it) as I have no air circulating at all. Coil, fuel filter, fuel pump are all hot. I don't mean warm, I mean you can hold onto it for about 5 seconds until it's time to let go. The fan I have I think was rated for 1800-2000 cfm IIRC. Like I said, I got the largest one available to fit on the radiator so it pulls A LOT of hot air into the engine bay. Car seemed to be running rich upon first cranking it but I readjusted the carb fuel/air to stock settings. So, what's next? Replace fuel pump, R&R carb, or put the stock fan back on? I haven't done a compression check because it's not "all the time". If it was drivetrain related, it should have this problem whenever driving...not all of a sudden right?

daveSanborn · « **Reply #14 on:** July, 28, 2009, 03:37:14 AM »

Quote

Car cranks, idles, and as soon as the fan cuts on, the car immediately dies. Adjust setting on fan, crank car, turn down setting to kick fan on, car dies.

Maybe I missed something earlier on... Did the car run fine before you installed this electric fan? Do you feel that if you re-installed the mech fan these problems would go away?

Reading the above qoute, it sounds to me like the elec. fan is overloading the electrical system.

blue65coupe · « **Reply #15 on:** July, 28, 2009, 05:06:18 AM »

This originally happened with the mechanical fan. Had the car get up to about 210* sitting and started sputtering. Went ahead and ordered an e-fan and new thermostat 'cause I figured I boiled some fuel. Never has gotten better. So, the car ran fine with the mechanical up until that one point and never ran it since with the mechanical. Obviously the fan is overloading somewhere and it may be related or may not. I did notice that when I was checking the pump, I still had a little trash coming out. Not much, but there should be none with the new tank and blown out lines. That means there is something still in the pump. Maybe a ton of stuff that is getting stirred up when driving. What I'm going to do next is re-install the mechanical fan (to make sure) and replace (or at least clean) the fuel pump. If that doesn't solve it I'll tear into the carb. I keep avoiding this b/c I know nothing of carb internals so this will be the last stop. Everybody says "no" but I'm still not convinced the fan is not causing some of the problems considering the amount of air it's putting into the bay. I could be way off, but if a coil cuts out when it heats up...this fan is heating it up. I'm making the carb the last thing so when it is determined that is the problem, Mark can laugh at me...more.

silverblueBP · « **Reply #16 on:** July, 28, 2009, 05:57:33 AM »

Hey now, I'm not laughing..........at this moment ;^) I know very little about carbs myself, it's just that I had a similar problem that was blatantly obvious when I removed the front bowl. I had checked everything else and THEN checked the carb, kinda like your situation!

Just hate seeing the car crippled, uh..I mean handicapped, crap, how about mechanically challenged.

blue65coupe · « **Reply #17 on:** July, 28, 2009, 06:07:53 AM »

Quote from: silverblueBP on July, 28, 2009, 05:57:33 AM

Just hate seeing the car crippled, uh..I mean handicapped, crap, how about mechanically challenged.

I know. I was thinking about calling AAA the other day but was afraid they'd ask if I needed a "short wrecker".

silverblueBP · « **Reply #18 on:** July, 28, 2009, 06:08:59 AM »

Quote from: blue65coupe on July, 28, 2009, 06:07:53 AM

I know. I was thinking about calling AAA the other day but was afraid they'd ask if I needed a "short wrecker".

:rofl :rofl :rofl

monkeystash · « **Reply #19 on:** July, 28, 2009, 09:20:00 AM »

Quote from: blue65coupe on July, 28, 2009, 05:06:18 AM

I could be way off, but if a coil cuts out when it heats up...this fan is heating it up.

Duane, the coil would get hot from being bolted to the head. Even if the airflow from the fan was extra hot, it most likely would still help to pull heat from the coil. Since it seems your issue only happens hot, the main suspects would be vapor lock, boiling gas, or electrical/ignition gremlins from the heat. If it were trash in the fuel system, I think it would be a consistent problem. Removing the e-fan to get back to a baseline is a good idea too. It helps to eliminate variables. Can you reroute your fuel line from the pump to the carb, keeping it from touching anything hot? Maybe wrap that line with a heat shield type wrap. I know you have a spacer, but is the carb hot to the touch? You should be able to rest your hand on it, if not, the gas might be boiling inside. You still need to address the overheating issue, which is most likely causing your other problem. I know it's frustrating, but you'll get it soon!

blue65coupe · « **Reply #20 on:** July, 28, 2009, 10:23:49 AM »

Carb off, fuel pump off. Look inside fuel pump galley and there are metal shavings. Take fuel pump apart and in the top of it are metal shavings. Getting ready to drain oil. Ryan, the car did this at about 210*. Never got over 195* on the guage with the e-fan........of course it never ran long enough either. Fuel line wasn't touching anything. Don't know if this was causing the problem but it certainly was not a good find.

Fast68back · « **Reply #21 on:** July, 28, 2009, 11:22:56 AM »

Is there a relay on the fan circuit? Do you have it wired into ignition leads?

70_Fastback · « **Reply #22 on:** July, 28, 2009, 11:47:50 AM »

Quote from: blue65coupe on July, 28, 2009, 10:23:49 AM

Look inside fuel pump galley and there are metal shavings. Take fuel pump apart and in the top of it are metal shavings.

Been there, done that. Hope yours is not as bad as mine was Duane.

blue65coupe · « **Reply #23 on:** July, 28, 2009, 11:57:34 AM »

Rick, no relay except for the temp control "on/off". J, I don't know what to say. Big balloon pop. If the oil looks clean I'm not gonna tear into it. I'll pull the dizzy (per Dave) and check the gear. I'm still assuming there's no MAJOR damage as it was not acting up 100% of the time. This may not have anything to do with the problem but I won't know till I diagnose this.

blue65coupe · « **Reply #24 on:** July, 28, 2009, 05:32:21 PM »

OK. Filtered the oil and it looks good. A VERY minimal amount of metal flakes. All of it seemed to be contained at the fuel pump. Pulled the dizzy and the gear has a very consistent wear pattern which leads me to believe that is where the flakes/shavings were coming from. The few cam gears I could see from looking down in the hole looked good. I'm going to assume it's ok and not tear into it any further. I'm going to re-install the dizzy (unless somebody screams "don't do it") and replace the fuel pump, clean up carb, re-install stock fan and see what happens. Somebody yell at me if I'm taking the wrong path. There's no way of knowing how the cam and gear set look without taking 'em out and I won't go this route unless it keeps acting up and I get a bad compression reading. Sound right?

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Author Topic: No change (bad update) (Read 1153 times)

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