Thinking to buy an old Ferrari 400i. Am I nuts?

[180 Out]

I recently got this itch to buy an old Ferrari, an '83 400i automatic. It's prugna (that's eye-talian for "laxative") over tan. Here's a similar unit that was for sale from a local dealer:
http://sanfranciscosportscars.com/1984-ferrari-400i/extras/bodygallery/

Here are some interior shots:
http://sanfranciscosportscars.com/1984-ferrari-400i/extras/closeupgallery/

The one I'm looking at is not as nice, but it's a Cali blue plate driver with just 27K original miles. The best part, it's just $15,000, plus about $800 more in taxes and license.  $16,000 for a front engine V12 Ferrari seems like a good idea to me, but then so has pouring $30K into a '65 Mustang that still looks like it's only worth $15K

So, has anyone had this itch before? Did you scratch it?

[SAC69]

The front end reminds me of a Daytona but the back is more of a "notchback" vs the "fastback" of a Daytona.  Nice car.  Good luck with the decision.

[monkeystash]

Consider maintenance costs too.  Pretty sweet car; not sure I've ever seen one before.

[JeffTepper]

Talk to Craig.  His next door neighbors are Ferrrari guys.

[Midlife]

Yes.  You are nuts.

[Horseplay]

A quick little internet reading makes this deal seem not so special. As mentioned earlier, maintenance costs could be a real issue. If you were to be serious, I would get it inspected by a Ferrari shop first. The cost would be worth it I'm sure if you ended up purchasing the car.

[cmayna]

My Ferrari neighbor said he's always thought about getting one of them if the price was right, for he'd chop out the back seat and turn it into a Ranchero to haul stuff.  He said those are nice cars from a mechanical point of view especially with an Automatic for city driving. The problem is they simply don't look like the typical Ferrari we're all use to seeing.  Instead it's a "I wanna be" type of cars.

But like any other car, unless it's a real good deal, you could end up paying a lot in repair bills.    You can spend the same amount in labor for a "I wanna be" as you would on a real deal. Be careful.  As already suggested above, they also highly recommend you take the car to a good Ferrari shop for a once over.

[180 Out]

I'm not Ferrari-fluent, meaning my knowledge is unreliable, but I would trace the 400i's lineage to the 1971 365 GTC/4:

.

This car used the new-for-'67 4-cam version of the iconic 60-degree Colombo V-12. I believe it was also the first production Ferrari to use heads with the intake ports located between the camshafts. This required the use of 6 side-draft 2-bbl Webers, as opposed to the classic Ferrari look of six downdraft 2-bbls sitting in a row between the cam covers. The contemporaneous 365 GTB/4 "Daytona," as an example, used heads with the classic layout.

The 365 GTC/4 was replaced with the 365 GT/4 2+2 in 1973:



Both the 365 GTC/4 and 365 GT/4 were 2+2's, although only the new model had enough rear seat room to accommodate a passenger with legs.

The 365 GT/4 2+2 became the 400 in 1976. Like all Ferraris prior to the 512BB and 308 GTB, the model designation indicates the displacement of a single cylinder in cc's.  So the main difference between the 365 GT/4 2+2 and the 400 was a slightly larger 4.8 liter engine. Also, the six taillights were reduced to four. Another change was the availability of a Chevy TH400 3-spd auto: a Ferrari first.  As it turns out, the autos outsold the 5-spd sticks by 2 to 1.

In 1979, the Webers gave way to Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection, and the model became the 400i.  In 1985 there was another displacement increase, to 412 cc's/cylinder, and the "i" dropped out of the name, making this final model the 412. The 412 was discontinued in 1989, and for about three years there were no more V12 Ferraris. 1992 brought the 456, returning a front engine V12 model to the lineup.

The reason no one ever sees a 365 GT/4 2+2, 400, 400i, or 412, despite the fact that they were in production for 17 years, is that Ferrari never imported any to the United States. All the American-registered cars came in through the gray market, requiring the importer to get sign-offs from the EPA and the DOT. California cars also had to go through a private lab analysis procedure, at a cost of thousands, and then to a Smog Check referee. If the car passed the sniffer test, then it got a Bureau of Automotive Repair sticker, a tiny piece of documentation worth its weight in gold for a Cali owner.

[180 Out]

Hi Craig. Thanks for the input from your neighbor. I assume he's just kidding about the Ranchero treatment, but maybe not. The 365 GT/4 2+2 - 400 - 400i - 412 line is definitely the Rodney Dangerfield of Ferraris. It has mainly to do with the styling, which has a definite family resemblance to the Fiat 124 Coupe, also designed by Pininfarina:



However in the day they cost $100K here in the states, which is about $225K in 2012 dollars. My avatar friend Mick Jagger owned one, as did Bill Wyman, John Bonham, Rod Stewart, and Elton John.  And the Shah of Iran.  As my previous post indicates, these cars lie at the end of an unbroken line from the '50's Testa Rossas to the 250 GTO's to the 275 GTB/4's and 365 GTB/4 Daytonas.

My deal is that the seller is to produce a Smog Check pass and if he does I'll jump. I'm not doing a Pre-Purchase Inspection, which I know runs contrary to all sensible advice. But the car runs strong, pulls smooth and hard to 6500 in 1st and 2nd, and it's 100% rust free. With such low miles the bottom end and the trans are barely broken in.  The K-Jetronic is a common setup and either I learn it myself or I find a mechanic for $45/hr. What could possibly go wrong?

[JeffTepper]

Bill:

A mechanic @ $45/hour????????????????  What kind of Ferrari mechanic charges that hourly rate around here??

 I assume you are either kidding or you got some serious shit down at the local medicinal marijuana dispensary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RapidRabbit]

I think he missed a zero or two.

[180 Out]

The key is to avoid *anything* with the Ferrari nameplate on it. Craigslist's "services offered > automotive services" has many mobile mechanics in the $35-45/hr range. The K-Jetronic system was used on Volvos, Mercedes, even DeLoreans. It may be the one good thing about living in the East Bay vis-a-vis the old car hobby, the vast number of mechanics in this area with experience with Bosch FI systems.

In related news, I just came across this 15,000 mile '73 365 GT4 2+2 for sale in Germany, as of last November, for 80,000 Euros! (That's $103,000.)





http://www.anamera.com/en/detail/car/119460/index.html?no_cache=1&ret=63

Maybe these cars are due for a little more respect.

[KBMWRS]

Heck buy it.  It ain't my money.

[JeffTepper]

The key is to avoid *anything* with the Ferrari nameplate on it. Craigslist's "services offered > automotive services" has many mobile mechanics in the $35-45/hr range. The K-Jetronic system was used on Volvos, Mercedes, even DeLoreans. It may be the one good thing about living in the East Bay vis-a-vis the old car hobby, the vast number of mechanics in this area with experience with Bosch FI systems.

In related news, I just came across this 15,000 mile '73 365 GT4 2+2 for sale in Germany, as of last November, for 80,000 Euros! (That's $103,000.)





http://www.anamera.com/en/detail/car/119460/index.html?no_cache=1&ret=63

Maybe these cars are due for a little more respect.

Avoiding anything with a Ferrari nameplate????????????????  When your mechanic sees the car, you suppose he won't recognize it as a Ferrari??  Even so, a Ferrari isn't a Honda and at some point the parts prices alone will get your attention.  When the annual service costs $10,000 at a Ferrari specialist, just how much of a discount do you think your generalist mechanic will give you?  If he is charging you by the hour to learn how to work on a Ferrari, it might be a costly learning process for both of you.  We're not talking about late 1950's American iron being maintained for 6 decades by local shade tree mechanics using tractor parts in Havana.  My point is that "Ferrari" and "economical to maintain" are mutually exclusive concepts, and even if your guy knows Bosch fuel injection, there are lots of other things that can go wrong with a Ferrari that require specialized experience and training to properly fix.

[180 Out]

This thread is reminding me of the Wanna-Gotta-Hadda Mustang kid from VMF. Except now I'm the one with the dunce cap. I remember Johnpro talking about that kid, about how he'd put a lot of effort into posting his advice and the kid would just ignore it, and Johnpro finally gave up and just had to laugh. Should I change my screen name to Wanna-Gotta-Hadda?

[67 Fastback]

Emotions buying cars can be a bad thing 

Bill

[Sluggo]

I don't know a lot about Ferraris. Driven a 328 and a 355. Neither was terribly impressive in my opinion.

The car you are looking at is probably a bastard. Like a 914 Porsche. Carries the name but nobody wants one.

Do your due diligence on it. Might be like owning a Mondial.

Not trying to be a Dick, just throwing my .02 in.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

[cmayna]

And no, my Ferrari neighbor was dead serious about chopping one.    He want's to know if you decide to not take the bath...er plunge.

But since we have not seen any pictures of said car:

[cmayna]

My neighbor knows of a customer who is selling his award winning 400i for $30k after having put over $90k into it.  If you want a car which you can literally jump in and go which has been gone through from head to tail then that is the one to go for you.  He said  "Tell your friend that for $16k, he'd better have another $16k set aside".    I'd almost consider the one you posted pics about for that dealership is pretty honest.

Regarding smog, you better make sure that car has a valid BAR sticker.  These cars apparently get smogged annually.

Good luck

[180 Out]

Hi Craig. Please PM me the contact info. I'm definitely interested. If it's a 5-spd that would be great!

P.S. Regarding pictures, here are the ones that came with the Craigslist ad for the $15K car I'm looking at:







Showing speedo at 180 kph (about 110 mph):

[67 Fastback]

The ad works for you because it's in your cache.
Bill

[cmayna]

Hi Craig. Please PM me the contact info. I'm definitely interested. If it's a 5-spd that would be great!

P.S. Regarding pictures, here are the ones that came with the Craigslist ad for the $15K car I'm looking at:

Yes 5 speed, blue in color.   PM sent

[180 Out]

I wonder if this could be it. Blue 5-spd car, 2006 Rodeo Drive Concours d'Elegance. Easy to remember license plate:

[opentrackerSteve]

the k-jetronic will make things much easier for you regarding the engine operation.

Other aspects of Ferrari though will continue to demand $$$$

[180 Out]

I just got some insight into the care and feeding of a Ferrari automobile, from this parts house web page for the 400i - 412 model: http://www.italiancarparts.com/parts/400_412.html. Plug wire set: $625. Distributor rotor: $375. Craigmayna's neighbor, the Ferrari restorer, told me the distributor cap for a single dizzie engine is now $1500. (The parts house in the link probably got tired of the smash and grab robberies and stopped carrying them.) So *that's* how you get to $2500 for a simple tuneup.

BTW, it turns out that the car in the pix, which I just happened to find on the Picasa web site, is the one that's for sale through Craigmayna's neighbor. Very beautiful. I think I'm in love.