I got the official offer to move to Kennesaw GA

[tarafied1]

The guy putting together the deal called me the other day, said the offer was coming. He said HR would not negotiate so it's basically a take-it or leave-it deal.
The offer includes the standard relo package like covering closing costs, moving expenses, house hunting trip, temporary living, storage, etc. No guaranteed buy-out on the house though. They will cover 90% of my loss on sale up to $40K. They didn't offer a raise but did bump my bonus from 12% to 18%. I would have to give up my company car. I would have to go to an office everyday and still some travel but maybe only 50%
I would start Jan 1st but wouldn't have to move until Dec 2012. I have until next Wednesday to decide.
I am not worried about the job detail, the relocation either. What bothers me is that based on a record year we had last year, the bonus increase would make up for the loss of the car but that's it. We are not likely to hit that same target again since they raised the bar. So basically they want me to risk losing money on my house, give up my car, my give up her job, move to more expensive area all with no raise.
Considering my family would move, give up friends, school etc. and we would most likely have to rent for a while and I still have to travel... I'm leaning toward not taking the offer.

[FordDude]

He said HR would not negotiate so it's basically a take-it or leave-it deal.

Well that sounds like  or    maybe 

fd

[tarafied1]

I know, I guess they don't want me as bad as I thought

[Jack1966]

does the move offer potential long-term--more avenues for advancement, etc.

[dodgestang]

Rule 1....all things are negotiable.

Rule 2....if the offer is so bad that you are going to turn it down and look for something else.....refer to rule 1 because you literally have absolutely nothing to lose at that point by putting down on paper what it is want and why.  The higher cost of living plus loss of one income for a period of time is excellent ammo for a 5% bump on top of the higher one time bonus payout.

[tarafied1]

that's the thing, I don't have to take it. I didn't go looking for it. They came to me. The exposure is probably a wash Jack. Maybe more potential since it will be near the Corporate office but I don't know that I want that kind of advancement. I am a hands on guy and I don't want a desk job in an office.
The job is a good fit for me and I am the best qualified for the position. At least as far as I know. I think that is what the big wigs think as well. So it seams to me they expected I would just take whatever they offered.
I am not going to play games. If I decide I want it, I will take it as is. If I decide I don't want it I won't have any problems walking away. I am happy with my current job/position. I just thought if they wanted to "tempt" me they would have tried harder.

[cmayna]

uh.....what country is GA in?

[tarafied1]

uh.....what country is GA in?

the South, I already have my passport

[67 Fastback]

If I was happy in my current position, I would not make a lateral move. And that's what it appears to be without a pay increase. Now, if they would compensate my efforts of dislocating my life and the lives of my family, then I would consider it further. Otherwise, it's a no-brainer IMO.
Bill

[tarafied1]

If I was happy in my current position, I would not make a lateral move. And that's what it appears to be without a pay increase. Now, if they would compensate my efforts of dislocating my life and the lives of my family, then I would consider it further. Otherwise, it's a no-brainer IMO.
Bill

that's what I'm thinking too

[67 Fastback]

that's what I'm thinking too

Sorry that it wasn't what you were expecting. When we talked, you seemed excited about the opportunity.

Just gives us a better window to get together 
Bill

[dodgestang]

There is another benefit deeper in the details that you may not have realized/factored in completely yet.

Are you underwater on your current house?

Having them sign up for 90% (up to 40k) can be a huge boom especially if you are underwater, want to get out of your current house and buy something newer/larger/better with the market in a down position. 

[tarafied1]

There is another benefit deeper in the details that you may not have realized/factored in completely yet.

Are you underwater on your current house?

Having them sign up for 90% (up to 40k) can be a huge boom especially if you are underwater, want to get out of your current house and buy something newer/larger/better with the market in a down position.

yeah, I don't really know if I am. I expect that I would have trouble selling it for what I owe in today's market. I am figuring that if I sat on it for a while I might be okay. I am not sure if that is why they gave me a year from the start date to move. That would give me time. Problem is I would loose (already have I guess) my equity. By selling now it's gone for sure. I'm okay staying though, my mortgage is less than I could probably rent the same size down there.

[Horseplay]

OK, here is what no one else has touched on yet. Turning down such an offer can do serious damage to your career with this company. Obviously, I do not know the politics of the organization but someone told their boss (and maybe he his and so on) that you were the man for the job. If you take a pass, it will put a bit of egg on some face(s) and there may be repercussions. Depending on the players this could cause a lot of issues for you going forward. It almost certainly ends any chance of advancement for you, in most cases.

All that said, you need to weigh it all and make the right decision for you and your family. In my opinion, the offer is not even worth considering outside of the political ramifications. I do agree, however, that EVERYTHING is negotiable. While I share your thoughts about the bonus opportunity, management will continue to look at that as real compensation...whether they honestly think you will get it or not. You need to simply lay out the financially regressive aspects of the offer and give them your counter proposal. The loss of the company car is a HUGE piece. It is not such a big savings for them that they cannot afford to re-think it. I would argue that with the still heavy travel load (50%) you want to retain the car. It's a winnable concession and worth far more than any raise you might try to negotiate.

One more note on the company car. If they do not budge and you are forced to use your own vehicle for company duties, they should be paying you mileage compensation. Typically this is around 50 cents a mile right now. You may want to verify this and calculate those monies in the overall financial impact of the move.

[67 evil eleanor]

There's an old saying, "Money can't buy happiness". Good luck which ever way you go.

[monkeystash]

Well, we sure would like to have you local, but make the best choice for you and your family.

[blue65coupe]

Craig,
Screw politics, negotiating, underwater house, etc.  YOU are on the right track of thinking.  YOU do what's best for you and your family.  It seems your mind is where it needs to be.  What I would suggest is, if you decide to decline, writing a formal letter stating a)your appreciation for the trust shown in you and b) your reason for declining.  It would also help to throw in "this is a position I would strongly consider based on the following criteria"...this is your negotiation.  A lot of smart guys here but making a decision based on your current house value or "egg on someone's face" is ridiculous.  If you lay out your reasons for not taking the position, basically lack of compensation, yet inform them of why you would like the position and it hurts your chance for advancement...screw 'em.  Keep in mind what's important and relay that.

[tarafied1]

thanks guys, I knew I could count on you all for good thoughts and ideas.
I have considered the ramifications of turning it down. The funny thing about this company, they are trying to reinvent themselves I think. We spun off from a larger company in 04, we were bought by another company in 06. Since then we have been undergoing a lot of change.
In 08 the job I have now was created for me, based on my skills. Those who created the job have since moved up the ladder. I think politic wise I do risk closing some doors but when I accepted this current job I fully expected that I would have it until I retire.
I have already written a letter exactly as described. I haven't sent it yet. I told my wife that we need to be prepared, just in case, for them to come back and say what would it take...
Lot to think about

[blue65coupe]

I told my wife that we need to be prepared, just in case, for them to come back and say what would it take...
Lot to think about

Way to think ahead.  Very good possibility.  HR will do what their boss tells them to do.

[Horseplay]

Craig,
Screw politics, negotiating, underwater house, etc.  YOU are on the right track of thinking.  YOU do what's best for you and your family.  It seems your mind is where it needs to be.  What I would suggest is, if you decide to decline, writing a formal letter stating a)your appreciation for the trust shown in you and b) your reason for declining.  It would also help to throw in "this is a position I would strongly consider based on the following criteria"...this is your negotiation.  A lot of smart guys here but making a decision based on your current house value or "egg on someone's face" is ridiculous.  If you lay out your reasons for not taking the position, basically lack of compensation, yet inform them of why you would like the position and it hurts your chance for advancement...screw 'em.  Keep in mind what's important and relay that.

Duane,

Can't say I disagree with your overall premise. Family and happiness should always be first priority. Thing is, these are not easy times and I don't expect that to change anytime soon. Whether one likes it or not you cannot ignore the potential ramifications of declining a position that was essentially created with you in mind. Craig is the only one who knows the players and "game" within his company. Only he will really know just how much this part needs to be in his decision process.
Also, don't sell short the housing value bit either. If I were to get the same offer to cover up to 90% of loss, I would jump at the chance. Everyone's situation is going to be very uniquely different in cases like these. We're all just trying to cover as many aspects as possible to help the man make his own decision.

Plus, I like to ramble. You may have noticed by now.

[silverblueBP]

I told my wife that we need to be prepared, just in case, for them to come back and say what would it take...
Lot to think about

That is exactly how I ended up in Kansas!

Deb interviewed for a QC job with the largest nursing home corp back in 92. She asked what it would take to sever my Florida roots and I gave her my price. At the time, I thought it was ridiculous (now, not so much) and they would never go for it. She had free rein to pull the trigger if that one demand was met. She called me up from Atlanta and said to start packing!

Best damn thing we ever did, bar none. We could have never dreamed we'd be where we are today. You never know how one decision will affect the next. She now works for K-State research & extension, developing programs that affect thousands if not millions of seniors and absolutely LOVES her job. I sit at home, manage projects that go through our shop and sell other jobs while training empty puppy skulls full of mush. My job now allows me to spend most of my time at home NOT pissed off, grumpy, exhausted, etc...
[1]

1.	as long as taxes are not brought up

[RustyRed]

I know it would take a considerable amount of incentive for me to even consider in passing moving my family.

Sounds to me like they are trying to bend you over financially, sorry but that's the way it sounds to me.

Being underwater on a mortgage only matters if you "have to sell"...if you stay and keep making the note payment then it's really a who cares kind of deal.

I am kind of feeling my way at work right now also. 

I got a "promotion" at work last year that really just meant a 5% raise and promise of a higher bonus this coming year and another healthy raise at next annual review.  It also meant a lot more running around town to bs meetings and more work.  I have to admit that if the higher bonus and raise don't come through I will have to give some serious consideration to staying or looking for greener pastures.

Only reason I really want to stay here is because it's really close to home and overall I like the hours, people, etc.

[tarafied1]

I have had many job opportunities. I have moved my family several times already. It has been good and was said one decision does affect another. In the past, the job offers were always so tempting financially along with a job I wanted that I took them. This time I think they know I would do well at the job and I'm the logical person in our company so they just figured I would do it. But I don't HAVE to. The group that is in Aurora IL and Canada do HAVE to move or separate from the company. I have the option to stay where I am at. Some have chose to retire and other chose to find another job. If they want me they will have to do better than this. I am not going to beg. I will play their game and say no thanks knowing if they don't counter I am okay but if they do I will be prepared for that too.

[blue65coupe]

Duane,

Can't say I disagree with your overall premise. Family and happiness should always be first priority. Thing is, these are not easy times and I don't expect that to change anytime soon. Whether one likes it or not you cannot ignore the potential ramifications of declining a position that was essentially created with you in mind. Craig is the only one who knows the players and "game" within his company. Only he will really know just how much this part needs to be in his decision process.
Also, don't sell short the housing value bit either. If I were to get the same offer to cover up to 90% of loss, I would jump at the chance. Everyone's situation is going to be very uniquely different in cases like these. We're all just trying to cover as many aspects as possible to help the man make his own decision.

Plus, I like to ramble. You may have noticed by now.

Terry,
You make some points and bottom line is it's his decision and, for some reason, he asked us yahoos for help.  The sole point I was making, and not to discount any other point, is the fact that doing something solely for a dollar in something like this can have worse ramifications than missing a promotional opportunity.  Again, a lot of smart people here with good points but the big picture is more important.  I've taken a job for more money and was miserable.  Completely miserable.  I also left that job for a 20% reduction in pay simply to get out of there.  It worked out in the end and I learned some good lessons.  I'm glad there weren't kids involved at that time.

[apollard]

I'm on board with the letter, with a few caveats:

1- make darn sure your job really is secure. Look around with open eyes. I've seen more than once a great employee was offered a postion that seemed like a lateral move to try and save the employee. If the higher ups know something about the reinvention of the company you don't (and that they can't reveal right now), this may be the way to ensure an excellent employee is out of the line of fire. Maybe find some of the guys you can trust the most and have a non-work related off-the-record bear with them. Heck, I've taken employees out for that beer a couple of times. You can't always see what's coming, and they can't always tell you (officially)

2- don't put the "what it will take" in the letter - properly worded, the letter will do that. Be careful to not close the door - use phrases like "at this time", etc.

3- think about the area you are in if the job does go away - you'll likely be moving anyway, and stats say it's a whole lot easier to find a job in Atlanta...