Alignment advise

[tarafied1]

I am scheduled for an alignment when I return from Saudi, last time I asked for the specs from DazeCars:
0 to -.5 degrees of Camber but can be as much as -3 degrees Camber for the track cars

1/16 to 1/8" toe in

+1.5 to +3 degrees of Caster

These still considered good or is there better settings?
my toe is way out, ruined two tires. My camber was excessive as well, probably a lot more than -.5 (I'm guessing I had -3 by the looks of it)

[silverblueBP]

Sure looks like you have way to much neg camber! You only need that if you are hard into corners!

[tarafied1]

when I installed the roller spring perches, it lowered the car and seamed to have increased the negative camber. I should have had an alignment before driving 3500 miles on the Power Tour! Lucky we made it home!!!

[Shaun]

For a street car I like -.5 degrees camber, +3 caster for non-power, +5 caster for power and 1/8th toe in.

[tarafied1]

thanks, it's non-power

[sigtauenus]

I need to check what I had put on my car for caster, but I am pretty sure they put it at the lower end of the window (1 or 1.5*), and I think next time I'll have it higher (like on the 3-5* end).

[Sluggo]

For a street car I like -.5 degrees camber, +3 caster for non-power, +5 caster for power and 1/8th toe in.

BAM. +1

[Shaun]

Another thing to note is that you MUST tell the tech the specs YOU WANT.  Don't let them refer to the book.  Those specs were written for bias ply tires.  Make sure you tell them what you want and nothing greater than 1/8-1/4 degree difference either side.  If they can't acheive the numbers with that accuracy then you either have a bent up frame, worn out parts or you need to take the car somewhere else (probably the latter).

I use a digital gauge and with a little extra dicking around can get both sides bang on equal to the tenth of a degree.

[tarafied1]

thanks, when I scheduled the appointment I asked if they would set it to my specs rather than by the book. They said they would.

[Opentracker]

We like a lot of caster too but pulling the lower arm forward to get it all can cause problems.

( 1 ) - Tire rub from moving the tire forward in the fender opening. The wheel bearings are very low on the spindle, just up from the lower ball joint. Moving the lower ball joint forward moves the tire in the fender opening a lot. Moving the upper ball joint back doesn't move the tire in the fender opening much at all.

( 2 ) - Moving the outside tie rod end forward doesn't help the steering geometry. Moving the lower ball joint forward moves the outer tie rod forward and pushes it down. The down isn't so bad but moving it forward messes up the steering angles and can cause the cars to drive weird.

On the 67-73 cars, we will put 1/4" of shims under the front bolt ( in-between the shaft and shock tower ) on both upper arms to move the upper ball joint backward. Sometimes we will offset the shaft in both arms as well. For us, it's much better to move the upper ball joint backward to add caster than move the lower one forward.

[tarafied1]

thanks for the info. I don't think I (or they) will be adding any shims, however. Have you seen my engine compartment!?! There is no way to get at the nuts on the shock tower with the 429 in place. That being said, would you say keep the caster on the lower side? It's non-power steering so Shaun recommended +3, is that still okay with moving the lower?

[Shaun]

We like a lot of caster too but pulling the lower arm forward to get it all can cause problems.

( 1 ) - Tire rub from moving the tire forward in the fender opening. The wheel bearings are very low on the spindle, just up from the lower ball joint. Moving the lower ball joint forward moves the tire in the fender opening a lot. Moving the upper ball joint back doesn't move the tire in the fender opening much at all.

( 2 ) - Moving the outside tie rod end forward doesn't help the steering geometry. Moving the lower ball joint forward moves the outer tie rod forward and pushes it down. The down isn't so bad but moving it forward messes up the steering angles and can cause the cars to drive weird.

On the 67-73 cars, we will put 1/4" of shims under the front bolt ( in-between the shaft and shock tower ) on both upper arms to move the upper ball joint backward. Sometimes we will offset the shaft in both arms as well. For us, it's much better to move the upper ball joint backward to add caster than move the lower one forward.

Not to mention the stock LCA bushing binds when you yank it to far from 90 degrees to the frame rail.  If you use a LCA with a bearing inner pivot like John's or ours you are in much better shape.

I do like John mentions and shim the upper front bolt to tilt the spindle rearward and gain some positive caster there.  Or, with our tubular arms turn the front bearing out a few more turns than the rear.  You don't need shims then as you'll be able to set camber with the LCA eccentric and fine tune caster with the strut rod.

[tarafied1]

will +3 on the camber push the limits of the LCA especially if I don't add shims to the UCA? All my suspension is relatively new or low mileage anyway but basically stock type stuff. I have Grab-A-Track parts except for the ORP roller spring perches and I did the Shelby/Arning drop. I do have the 620 1" lowering springs as well.

[tarafied1]

Shaun,
I'm guessing that my LCA's moved causing the alignment to go out. I'm looking at your Lower Control Arm Camber Kit for 67-73 Mustangs, do you have those in stock?
...and should I get a bump-steer kit while I'm at it? I don't know if the alignment shop will dedicate the time needed to get it set-up right.

[Shaun]

The LCA camber kits really help lock the alignment in.  The stock round eccentric can shift when cornering hard on sticky tires.

I don't think +3 caster would be an issue on a stock rubber LCA but keep an eye on it.  The 67+ LCA's have a larger O.D. rubber bushing so you have more to play with.

The bumpsteer kit is a good add on, pretty much every early Mustang suffers from bumpsteer.

If you are having trouble with alignment shops, have a go at aligning the car yourself.  The tools cost about as much as one alignment but after figuring it out and asking us lot a few questions, you'll forever be able to align your own car to whatever spec's you want. 

[tarafied1]

great, Thanks so much for all the help!

[cmayna]

You're more than welcome

 

[SELLERSRODSHOP]

If you are having trouble with alignment shops, have a go at aligning the car yourself.  The tools cost about as much as one alignment but after figuring it out and asking us lot a few questions, you'll forever be able to align your own car to whatever spec's you want.

any recommendations on what brand tools to purchase to get a good set? been thinking about doing that for a while. i hate having to send a car out for alignment, then having to bring it back & reset the ride height etc. on the older rods. would be handy to just be able to do it all in one shot.

[silverblueBP]

I made a toe gauge and bought the caster/camber gauge from Longacre.

http://streetortrack.com/Longacre-Caster-Camber-Gauge-with-magnetic-adapter-pr-23516.html

[Shaun]

any recommendations on what brand tools to purchase to get a good set? been thinking about doing that for a while. i hate having to send a car out for alignment, then having to bring it back & reset the ride height etc. on the older rods. would be handy to just be able to do it all in one shot.

I use this one - http://www.streetortrack.com/Digital-Caster-Camber-Gauge-with-AccuLevel-and-Quick-Set-Adapter-pr-24516.html



A perfectly leveled floor, some toe plates, tape measures and some greased 12"x12" tiles.  You can easily level the car out by placing tiles or thin sheets of plywood or sheet metal under the tires.  Take the time to do this part right, then mark on the floor where the pieces go and how many/high for next time.

When you make a change, remember to bounce the car on all 4 corners to settle the suspension back down.  Make sure to use nice slippery tiles up front so the tire doesn't hang up and is able to slide around so the suspension is settled again.  Well, unless you are really into it and want to by some turn plates.

[AzPete]

I use two garbage bags folded under the tires and avoid the grease mess.....

[cmayna]

I use two garbage bags folded under the tires and avoid the grease mess.....

Hopefully they were empty 

[sigtauenus]

How does the toe measurement work?  I'm thinking if toe is 1/8, that is probably pretty hard to measure accurately with a round tire and a tape measure.

[Horseplay]

How does the toe measurement work?  I'm thinking if toe is 1/8, that is probably pretty hard to measure accurately with a round tire and a tape measure.

measure off the rim not the tire

[AzPete]

If measuring off the tire, simply use the tread grooves as a guide......always works for me. Also, you can spin the tire with a chalk against the tread giving a line to measure from.