Houston, we have a problem!!

[Kats66Pny]

Had my powder coat guy come over to show me what he can PC. He's going to come back later to pick the stuff up. So I was removing the parts I'm getting PC, and when I removed the intake I see this. Is that RUST in there??? 

It's on/in all 2 of the outer holes on each side.

[Horseplay]

Those would be your coolant passages and it's not surprising they look that way given what we saw in the pics we saw earlier. You got some serious flushing in your future. This is why you don't run straight water in the radiator.

[Kats66Pny]

Ah ok so those somehow go to the radiator fluid. Gotcha! I knew I was going to have to flush stuff because you could see a reddish tint when you opened the cap and looked down inside. Then when I drained it. It has a HINT of green but still yucky. I don't plan on reusing the current radiator anyway. I need one that has the in/outs appropriate for a 5.0 swap so I can hook up the trans cooler correctly. The way it was before, the hose on the bottom was an 's' shape and you couldn't reach the plugs. If that makes any sense.

For the record *I* didn't put straight water in. Radiator was never touched since the day I bought Gertrude.

[AzPete]

May want to consider no tranny cooler in the rad. and stick with an external one. Much better....especially if you hot rod it a bit.

[Kats66Pny]

Been using an external. She had one since the day I got her. But the lines are all funky and need to be redone because they are just kind of 'there' under the car.

[AzPete]

Yep, as many are. Even when done by pros....it can sometimes look like a rats nest. That is why I suggest scrapping the one in the radiator and plumb some nice lines thru the radiator wall to the external cooler. Most just run them under the car frame and look like ........

[guruatbol]

Summit has a tranny cooler that goes inline and can be hidden next to the frame.  It doesn't cool as well as the big ones in front of the radiator, but I am with Pete, scrap the one in the radiator and go with some sort of external one.

Because gert is torn down you can run the lines anywhere you want to.  Hide them and since you have a good eye for detail, you will be able to find a great spot for the lines.  Or use the inline ones that hides under the car out of the way.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-13260/?rtype=10

Mel

[tarafied1]

straight water is a better coolant but as you can see, things rust. You also have no freeze protection. I run 15% antifreeze and "water wetter" which has made a noticeable improvement in engine temps over the typical 50/50% and the water wetter protects from rust. I do have to be careful about freezing weather. I don't typically take it out much when it's that cold but even in the garage it could freeze.

[cmayna]

straight water is a better coolant but as you can see, things rust. You also have no freeze protection. I run 15% antifreeze and "water wetter" which has made a noticeable improvement in engine temps over the typical 50/50% and the water wetter protects from rust. I do have to be careful about freezing weather. I don't typically take it out much when it's that cold but even in the garage it could freeze.

KBMWRS and  I  use 20-25% coolant, water wetter & distilled water.  Never a heating issue.

[guruatbol]

I use 50/50 Prestone green.  I like water wetter and distilled water, but there is a freezing issue here.  Mike and Craig live where it rarely if ever freezes and their cars are garaged where it will never freeze.

Where you live Kat may be the same thing, but if she is going to be driven like you say and you are using an aluminum radiator, you should look at other solutions.

Even in the summer in our buses we run coolant instead of water.  We use the red which is sometimes hard to find, but it seems to work well.

When dealing with your cooling system you have to look at the big picture of when you are going to drive that vehicle and where and how long per trip and how far per trip.  will the weather change where you are going? 

All those things are important things to consider.  I have freezing temps for a small part of the year and even though they are in garages they still have the potential to freeze.  So, I use a 180 degree thermostat (never run without it) and 50/50 green.  I prefer Prestone in all four of my vehicles.  My daughter in ND uses 60/40 in her car and I think it is red too.  (GM) My daughter in CA with the S10 uses 50/50 red since that is what the mfg calls for.

Always use distilled water.  Many problems related to engine cooling systems effectiveness is due to mineral build up.  If you use tap water you add minerals to the equation and they tend to build up in the small nooks and reduce the effectiveness of your cooling system.

I blew a hose two years ago in my bus and had to change it in a parking lot.  I had no choice but to use water since we were in a strip mall in Vail CO.   When the bus was serviced two weeks later they drained the system and flushed it and added somewhere near 20 gallons of coolant.  Big bill.  This was in summer.

They call antifreeze this because it protects against freezing, they call coolant this because it helps to cool and has antifreeze properties.

Whatever you choose you should understand how your cooling system works.

Mel

[Kats66Pny]

When dealing with your cooling system you have to look at the big picture of when you are going to drive that vehicle and where and how long per trip and how far per trip.  will the weather change where you are going?

It won't be driven long distances very often. The occasional trip to surrounding towns for car shows (usually no more than 2hrs drive away) if the car club goes, but that's about it. Driving it mostly around town which is really small compared to big cities like Houston. Driving from the house to my daughters school and back home... 20 min drive. Home to grocery store.. 5-10 minute drive depending which store I go to and how many red lights I get caught at. My house to car club meets... anywhere from a 2 minute drive to 10 min drive away depending where they choose to go eat at.

As you can see, it'll be driven a lot, but just not very far. Oh, and not sure if it matters or how it's relative to this  but driving it around last year, even in the hot texas summer...according to the gauge, never got over 180.

[RustyRed]

After I rebuilt the motor on mine I was having problems with heat if I sat at a light to long or got stuck in traffic.  But my waterpump was a carry over from the old motor and getting up there in age.

I installed an alum. radiator that is the equivalent of a four row and stuck a high volumn water pump from Summit on it.

I run 50 / 50 distilled water and coolant now and never a problem.

If anything...on the cooler spring or fall days I have to drive for a while for the temp gauge to start getting up toward the normal running temp. if I am cruising with no traffic and just a few lights.  On winter days it runs fine but stays super cool but it is a little cold natured at first in the dead of winter.  Never any problems in the dog days of August either even when I get stuck in traffic, etc.

[guruatbol]

Stop and go is harder on the cooling system than the long freeway drives.  although they both can have their issues.

What I mean by overall picture is;

are going to fast in a straight line at the tranck?

are you going to autocross her?

are you driving in freezing conditions?

are you driving in blazing heat like I did in Brawley, CA 130 in August?

All these things must be considered when you choose your cooling system.  I am sure there are a few that the guys will remind me of that I forgot to mention too.

If you have heat like I did in Brawley, I ran a 160 degree thermostat to get it open sooner.  It sure didn't take long to open either.  In the winter when the days were 80 degrees one year I swapped in a 180 degree thermostat.  If you don't, sometimes you will end up never really warming up.

I also run the Edlebrock high volume water pumps on both cars.  Between that and the 3 row in the 67 and Aluminum one in the 65 I have no problems on the hottest days and with 50/50 coolant in them no issues in winter.

Just my .02

Mel

[Kats66Pny]

are going to fast in a straight line at the tranck?

are you going to autocross her?

are you driving in freezing conditions?

are you driving in blazing heat like I did in Brawley, CA 130 in August?

Nope to all the above. Just driving around town to run errands, drop/pick up kids from school, to and from weekly car meets. No hard and fast driving.



Do you have to remove the rockers in order to remove the heads from the block?

I was told there's a shop in town where I can take it and they can VAT it. If it's like any place, I can only assume if I bring in the whole engine and they have to take it apart it'll cost more. I'd like to be able to just take in the heads that need cleaned. Not to mention I don't really have a way to transport this engine. Downside to small cars. lol

[guruatbol]

Yes. Keep track of which rocker and push rod and lifter if you pull those came from which hole.  I usually use cardboard boxes for that and poke holes in them and draw a map on it to know which push rod came from where.  You will want to put them in the same spot.

Rockers aren't as critical, but I like to keep track of them and for those and lifters I use old egg cartons and draw a map on the lid.

Mel

[Kats66Pny]

Sounds like a pain. lol I think I'm just going to leave it alone and call up the machine shop in town and get an estimate on

- Cleaning the gunk out
- replacing gaskets
- check cam size / bored over any
- check all part are ok and not cracked or anything

[AzPete]

How far down are you going to go with the engine? Is it necessary to pull the heads for what you want for an outcome? Most of the time, once the heads are pulled, you continue to a full tear down and rebuild. Decide what your goal is before you take it apart.

Coolant systems can be cleaned with flushing and maybe a couple of coolant changes after it is up and driving again. A little bit of coolant rust is not a need to rebuild........

[Kats66Pny]

What I mainly want is that gunk out (it really annoys me knowing it's there!!) and to repaint the engine which I know can be done without taking it all apart. Reason for taking it in was to make sure everything is ok with it. Especially knowing all the other half-a$$ed work the PO did.  I know the engine was rebuilt (as well as the transmission) but I don't know when specifically it was done, if the PO did it himself or he had someone else do it.

My husband was also worried about possible blown head gasket. What his reason was, I can't remember but he said if the engine is already out and half taken apart, might be best just to replace it now.

[AzPete]

The only real way to ensure all the gunk is out is a complete tear down and vat....then a complete rebuild because you really don't want to put old parts back in it. A head gasket can be checked with a compression test....no tear down required.

[Mach1Rider]

Kat... I don't want to make this sound too critical but.... Why do you want to shoot yourself in the foot?

You have the eng out and on a stand. you want to insure that there are no problems befroe reinstalling and having to redo work.
Yes there is more to tearing it apart and extending the time frame, But do it once and do it right!
Once you have the eng apart to a shortblock stage, a simple inspection of the bore and parts is easy.
While its apart you can flush the coolant passages clean, Replace the seals and gaskets to insure no leaks or seepage (like the rear main)
Clean and paint the parts and tins without worry of overspraying and messing somethig else up.

Now once the eng is assembled and ready to go back in, You won't be kicking yourself and having to tear it back apart because your Hubby was right about that headgasket leaking and trying to remove the parts when is back in the bay and you scratch your new paint.

[Kats66Pny]

Kat... I don't want to make this sound too critical but.... Why do you want to shoot yourself in the foot?

You have the eng out and on a stand. you want to insure that there are no problems befroe reinstalling and having to redo work.
Yes there is more to tearing it apart and extending the time frame, But do it once and do it right!
Once you have the eng apart to a shortblock stage, a simple inspection of the bore and parts is easy.
While its apart you can flush the coolant passages clean, Replace the seals and gaskets to insure no leaks or seepage (like the rear main)
Clean and paint the parts and tins without worry of overspraying and messing somethig else up.

Now once the eng is assembled and ready to go back in, You won't be kicking yourself and having to tear it back apart because your Hubby was right about that headgasket leaking and trying to remove the parts when is back in the bay and you scratch your new paint.

That's what I was hoping to accomplish. I'd rather make sure everything is ok with the engine while it's out and half apart before it goes back in the car. Especially with the unknown history of its rebuild. I just don't know anything about taking apart or putting engines back together. It doesn't seem all that complicated, but looks can be deceiving!

It'll be out of the car and on a stand for a while so time frame I'm not worried about. Plus I have parts (intake, brackets, etc) off and being powder coated and I won't get those back for a couple weeks.

[AzPete]

So....if you are going into the engine....remember one thing....any moving part that is being reused should be kept in its same location that it came out of. This keep the wear patterns matched just in case.

Pull the rockers and push rods prior to removing the head bolts. Then the head bolts...they are torqued pretty high so be careful. Check the bolts as you remove them.....make sure the of the lengths for replacement if you do not buy new.

The heads are most likely stuck in position. Some persuasion with a rubber mallet helps. Be careful if you think about prying on any edges of the head.....you can break it. I have used a pry bar in an intake opening with success but be gentle.

The heads sit on two guide dowels (lower corners if memory is right) so they have to be lifter about 1/4" before they "slide" off the block and onto your toes.

The lifters will pop out but may be stuck with a ridge of crud just from normal running. Again, prying can damage the surface at the base of the lifter or the cam lubes. If you do not remove the lifters, they could fall out when the block is rotated.

Water pump, timing chain cover, and oil pan are self explanatory....listen to them and they will tell you how to remove them....lol

Hope this gives you a starting place.

[Kats66Pny]

Thanks. I'm also tempted to go buy a book with lots of pictures! 

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/How-to-Rebuild-the-Small-Block-Ford/George-Reid/e/9781932494891/?itm=2&USRI=rebuild+small+block+ford

[Mach1Rider]

  on having a manual handy.
Teardown tips, Use a couple of egg cartons for parts removed to keep them in proper order.
Mark the top with cyl# and place the parts in the hole, I simple punched hole in the raised part holds the pushrod.
place the rocker,fulcrum and nut in egg hole and lifter in hole opposite of each in order.
Headbolts can be layed in top with long heads facing down and short facing up.
I use small part boxes for all the bolts from oil pan, valvecover ect marked for location so the don't get lost.
There is enough help on this forum to walk you thru it. 

[AzPete]

Yes....get a book....even if it is not the best in the world, you can use it. Of course, as mentioned.....there is just a bit of knowledge here.....even if we have different ways of doing the same job.....it all works.