Quick questions on cowl removal

[Kats66Pny]

To drill out and remove all the spot welds...Do I need to put the whole car on (4) jack stands or can I just leave it on all 4 tires?

[abrahamfh]

Good freaking question. I believe the cowl is a super huge player in the overall structural integrity of these cars. Curious to hear what the proper direction to go in would be.

I'm cutting out a rocker and it seems as though I can't put enough front to back and side to side support to keep the car from bending or twisting. Got to love unibody designed cars.

[Kats66Pny]

I'm finding tons of how-to articles on cowl repairs, but none mention how or if the car needs to be supported while the old one is removed. I assume when installing the new one, the car will need to be supported so it stays straight to get the best and proper fit for welding it in.

If it matters, I still have the doors on. I know I've seen lots of pictures of people putting support braces in the door area when the car is all apart for support.

[Horseplay]

I have never removed a cowl so I'll let those with personal experience give you detailed answers but I can tell you when you start separating the old cowl the whole front end is going to lose most of it's structural integrity. Temporary bracing is going to help you keep it "square", so to speak. I would definitely put the car on stands versus letting it sit on it's wheels when doing this kind of work.

[Kats66Pny]

Looking around for articles I ran across this..

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/projectbuild/mump_0003_1966_ford_mustang_torque_box/photo_12.html.



Gert has no torque boxes. 

[Horseplay]

You don't need them. If you were planning to race her, I would say install them otherwise they weren't needed the last 40+ years so...

[Kats66Pny]

You don't need them. If you were planning to race her, I would say install them otherwise they weren't needed the last 40+ years so...

Phew.. ok good. I didn't want to have to whine to hubby about needing more parts after he just got the cowl. lol

[AzPete]

Put Gert on about 6 jack stands......making sure she is level and square. Two under the front frame rails, two under the cowl area, and two at the rear frame rails. Two more under the rear seat area would be good to. Not just jacked up and stuck on stands, but be sure she is level. Leave her sit on them until you have all the structural repairs done. This will keep her square and going down the road straight.

The door supports are not real important on a coupe, especially if you are not trying to rotate her or spin her while doing work. If doing rocker panels, door supports would help.

[tarafied1]

when I did my front frame rails, I had set the car on the pinch weld at the rocker panels and "leveled" the car. Jack stands are good for support but if your garage is not level you could try adjustable stands made for campers. You can find them at "Camper World" or other places that sell camping supplies and parts. It's a good idea to level the car in space. This way you can check that nothing has moved just by putting the level on it. I used the level across the shock towers and along the rockers. The main thing I think is like Pete said, don't try to move the car at all once you are cutting on it. Once it is set up on stands leave it there until your done.

[AzPete]

Wooden wedges on the regular jack stands will work also.

[Kats66Pny]

when I did my front frame rails, I had set the car on the pinch weld at the rocker panels and "leveled" the car. Jack stands are good for support but if your garage is not level you could try adjustable stands made for campers. You can find them at "Camper World" or other places that sell camping supplies and parts. It's a good idea to level the car in space. This way you can check that nothing has moved just by putting the level on it. I used the level across the shock towers and along the rockers. The main thing I think is like Pete said, don't try to move the car at all once you are cutting on it. Once it is set up on stands leave it there until your done.

Gotcha, thanks!

[Choptop69]

I have replaced around  ten cowls on 67- 68 Fastbacks. A few questions I have are, 1. is the motor and transmission out? 2. are you replacing inner and outer cowls? And 3 how good of shape is your floor pan, floor pan extensions, and firewall? If you are only removing the top part of the cowl, no jack stands or bracing needed. The inner cowl plus everything I asked about will hold everything in place and be fine. If you are replacing both, depending on the condition of floor, floor pan ext and fire wall should be enough if engine and transmission are out.  Now as far as " Drilling out the cowl" I would not drill out the spot welds if you are only replacing the top.  If you have an air comp. and a air cut off tool that is the way to go. Will post pics this weekend of how to grind spot welds and tools to separate  them. Hope this helps

[silverblueBP]

The car was still pretty rigid when I had it to this point.





I musta been out of my mind to remove the cowl when there was zero rust there.

[abrahamfh]

I think her tranny is still in and she just got a one piece cowel(upper and lower already welded up).

[silverblueBP]

WTH is a one pc cowl? Does it come already painted on the inside?

The reason I took mine off was so I could paint the inside!

[Kats66Pny]

Its 2 separate pieces - they aren't welded together.
This one - http://www.cjponyparts.com/cowl-panel-complete-1965-1966-mustang/p/COWL1/

1. is the motor and transmission out?

Motor is out, tranny is still in.

2. are you replacing inner and outer cowls

Yup, both are being replaced.

And 3 how good of shape is your floor pan, floor pan extensions, and firewall?

Floors look good, firewall seems to be good too.



There is some rust though on the side cowls. Can't really see it in this picture but at the top of the side cowl, where it meets the cowl vent has rusted through.
(old picture taken last summer)

[abrahamfh]

Sorry Kat

[Horseplay]

Hey Kat,

If your cowl is so rotted that it requires complete replacement I find it really hard to believe the floors are in such great shape (unless they were previously repaired).

In your pictures it looks like someone applied a thick layer of something like roofing tar or undercoating on the floors. Have you probed around a bit on the floor in the usual trouble spots? Examined them from underneath too? When I see something like that "glopped" on I immediately think someone is trying to hide something.

[Kats66Pny]

Floors were replaced. Cowl was not. I can only guess the previous owner, since he was building the car to race in, didn't need a water proof car (no racing in rain) so didn't bother spending the time & money fixing the cowl.

[Dne']

When I removed my radiator support/crossmember and strut channels, the frame separated about 1" on the last few spot welds being undone! I had taken many measurments before so I knew what I was going back to.  When removing your cowl, you could, might, maybe or not notice encounter a sudden "shift" when taking the remaining few spot welds apart. from what I've learned~ I'd take precautions/ preliminary measurements!  It may seem sublte enough, but just a little off "here" can affect something way down the line(windshield fitment, hood alighnment, etc)! A few braces temporarily installed would be a good idea, even a monte carlo support would be beneficial.  Never Assume anything~ don't assume it's going to be structurally sound and not shift even a 1/4"!

[Kats66Pny]

Before stuff gets welded.. I know the inner needs to be prepped, coated, seam sealer, etc to keep it from rusting in the future. Do you just sand it down some and spray a couple coats of some epoxy primer, then paint?

I'm still undecided if I should body fill in the vent for a nice smooth look (like the one in GPRs thread) or keep the vents normal.  I like both looks so hard to decide!

[Dne']

The cowls were for fresh air intake, and if you had AC, it would suck in fresh air on the passenger side(not sure about the 66).  I'll tell you this, when I park my '67 outside, leaves just find their happy little way right through that grill into the cowl! If I had know way back when, I would have removed the grills making a solid piece!  As for your first question, surely someone will answer that part. Logically, what you said sounds like a good idea! I have always been under the impression no matter how well you prep it, then weld it, then there's bare metal from the welding, so it's bound to start the rusting process again! So, how would one seal the inside after the install?

Before stuff gets welded.. I know the inner needs to be prepped, coated, seam sealer, etc to keep it from rusting in the future. Do you just sand it down some and spray a couple coats of some epoxy primer, then paint?

I'm still undecided if I should body fill in the vent for a nice smooth look (like the one in GPRs thread) or keep the vents normal.  I like both looks so hard to decide!

[Kats66Pny]

I don't have AC or heat and I always have windows open because I like the breeze. That's how I get fresh air in a car if I want it. If I decided to go in and put AC and heat in the future, some of the aftermarket systems are recirculating systems so they don't use the cowl vent at all.  They just recycle the air from the inside of the car.  AC will probably be added eventually because Texas summers are torture!

[abrahamfh]

Do you ever find yourself needing to use the defroster? Just another one of the many things to consider until you install a modern system if you are going to delete the cowl vents.

[Kats66Pny]

Defroster... in Texas?  HA! So what.. a couple weeks out of the year where it would be needed, but those kind of days are for the daily drivers - Lexus or Sebring.