Author Topic: Upgrade sway bar or just be content (Read 1250 times)

abrahamfh · « **on:** February, 01, 2011, 02:43:40 PM »

Not that I need it anytime soon but I should asking now.

The sway bar on Fred currently measures 5/8" diameter. Would it make that big a difference to go thicker for a street/open track track?

AzPete · « **Reply #1 on:** February, 01, 2011, 02:46:45 PM »

Quote from: abrahamfh on February, 01, 2011, 02:43:40 PM

Would it make that big a difference to go thicker for a street/open track track?

yep....

Opentracker · « **Reply #2 on:** February, 01, 2011, 04:21:55 PM »

Quote from: AzPete on February, 01, 2011, 02:46:45 PM

yep....

+1 . . . you would notice it the first time you turned the steering wheel.

Grabber70Mach · « **Reply #3 on:** February, 01, 2011, 06:00:09 PM »

Quote from: Opentracker on February, 01, 2011, 04:21:55 PM

+1 . . . you would notice it the first time you turned the steering wheel.

+2

Fast68back · « **Reply #4 on:** February, 01, 2011, 06:06:54 PM »

Ask the new wife.....

abrahamfh · « **Reply #5 on:** February, 01, 2011, 06:29:35 PM »

Any preferences?

Will the engine need to be in place before deciding on one due to the oil pan possibly interfering?

Opentracker · « **Reply #6 on:** February, 01, 2011, 06:44:15 PM »

Quote from: abrahamfh on February, 01, 2011, 06:29:35 PM

Any preferences?

Will the engine need to be in place before deciding on one due to the oil pan possibly interfering?

( 1 ) -

I would get a 1" bar from M+ with poly end links and frame bushings

( 2 ) -

No . . . . the sway bar won't be in the way of the oil pan

OR

No . . . the oil pan won't be in the way of the sway bar

Shaun · « **Reply #7 on:** February, 01, 2011, 07:24:29 PM »

I would go with a 1-1/8" bar for an open track car. I noticed a lot less body roll when switching up to the 1-1/8".

1" bar:

1-1/8" bar:

Not exactly the same spot on the same corner but you get the idea.

silverblueBP · « **Reply #8 on:** February, 01, 2011, 07:26:51 PM »

Before you start throwing parts at it, take some time to decide what you will using the car for and then axe lots of questions geared towards that end. John and Shaun can really help for those things.

Shaun types faster than me......

1 1/8" bar in the pic below.

monkeystash · « **Reply #9 on:** February, 01, 2011, 07:29:03 PM »

Quote from: Shaun on February, 01, 2011, 07:24:29 PM

I would go with a 1-1/8" bar for an open track car. I noticed a lot less body roll when switching up to the 1-1/8".

What rate front springs are those Shaun?

Mark?

abrahamfh · « **Reply #10 on:** February, 01, 2011, 07:52:39 PM »

Quote from: silverblueBP on February, 01, 2011, 07:26:51 PM

Before you start throwing parts at it, take some time to decide what you will using the car for

Still have a little ways to go before I start doing that, but I figured I should start collecting some knowledge and doing research on what to start saving up for when the time comes.

My plan for Fred has been for a occasional fun street car with enough balls to have some fun on the track.

Jonk67 · « **Reply #11 on:** February, 01, 2011, 07:59:02 PM »

What's the difference (pro/con) on a street car for a 1" vs. a 1 1/8" bar running a sbf?
And as Ryan asked, what springs are Shaun & Marks car running?
Jon

silverblueBP · « **Reply #12 on:** February, 01, 2011, 08:46:16 PM »

I'm running 620 front springs that actually pan out at around 560lbs. The rears are supposedly 175lbs.

daveSanborn · « **Reply #13 on:** February, 02, 2011, 05:43:05 AM »

Quote

My plan for Fred has been for a occasional fun street car with enough balls to have some fun on the track.

The 1.125" sway bar IMO is too much for an "occasional fun street car". If I were you I'd go with the 1" bar.

mustangstofear · « **Reply #14 on:** February, 02, 2011, 06:25:25 AM »

If you are not upgrading the entire front end, the 1 in inch would be a better choice. Rich.

pprince · « **Reply #15 on:** February, 02, 2011, 06:40:17 AM »

The first thing I did to my Mustang 20 years ago was to put in a 1" sway bar. It made a night and day difference.

Shaun · « **Reply #16 on:** February, 02, 2011, 08:05:14 AM »

The size of the bar won't make the front end ride stiffer down the road, springs/shocks do that. A larger bar will reduce body roll and improve turn in feel/speed.

If memory serves me correct, the first pic with the 1" bar I was using 560lb springs on a conventional control arm setup (can't remember if it was during our tubular testing or with modified stock stuff), the second picture is during testing of our coil over with 450lb springs because of the better motion ratio. If you back calculate the 450lb to the old motion ration the result is pretty much the same.

Starfury · « **Reply #17 on:** February, 03, 2011, 06:41:47 AM »

Shaun, how is it that a larger bar won't increase front end stiffness in street driving? A sway bar ties the front wheels together, so when you hit a bump/dip with one wheel, the sway bar adds to the spring/shock resistance because the other wheel is essentially trying to pull it back to a neutral location. The larger the bar, the more tightly the wheels are held together. Obviously this doesn't happen if the road is perfectly flat and both wheels are moving in the same direction, but city streets are almost never that flat, especially around here.

I noticed a mild increase in front end stiffness when I moved from a 5/8" bar to a 15/16" bar with stock springs and Gas-A-Justs.

daveSanborn · « **Reply #18 on:** February, 03, 2011, 01:35:06 PM »

Quote

Shaun, how is it that a larger bar won't increase front end stiffness in street driving?

I'd like to see Shaun's answer, but my guess is.... the larger bar (1.25") would increase stiffness, but when compared to a 1" bar during "street" driving the difference wouldn't be noticable.

Your comparison of the 5/8ths bar (stock) to a 15/16ths bar is a "night and day" difference. Upgrading from the 1" to the 1.25" the difference would really only be noticable during agressive driving.

From my experience, the 1.25" bar is WAY TOO agressive for normal daily driven cars. It prevents the suspension from easy articulation and transmits too much "road feel" to the chassis resulting in a "harsh" ride.

Shaun · « **Reply #19 on:** February, 03, 2011, 02:51:16 PM »

Quote from: daveSanborn on February, 03, 2011, 01:35:06 PM

From my experience, the 1.25" bar is WAY TOO agressive for normal daily driven cars. It prevents the suspension from easy articulation and transmits too much "road feel" to the chassis resulting in a "harsh" ride.

Dave,

You are probably right for a 100% street car. I was writing from the point of view of a street/open track car as I think that was the OP plan. A bigger bar will transmit more feed back on uneven street roads where the wheels are not hitting the same bump at the same time like a speed bump when both sides rotate up/down simultaneously, but the decrease in body roll and sharper turn in is welcomed on the track (and the street for me). As with all dual purpose cars there are compromises.

When I switched bars I can't say I noticed any increase in ride harshness but I sure noticed the sharper turn in on the street and track and less roll on the track.

Its all a tuning device anyway, a 1" or 1-1/8" bar is going to be a heck of a lot better than stock!

Midlife · « **Reply #20 on:** February, 03, 2011, 06:17:19 PM »

Doesn't replacing the front sway bar to a much larger diameter also affect the amount of understeer our Mustangs have? I thought that by going above 1", the understeer turns to oversteer, or a rear sway bar is needed to keep things close to neutral. Is this true?

B67FSTB · « **Reply #21 on:** February, 04, 2011, 12:06:51 AM »

IMHO front 1 " and rear 7/8"

66gt350 · « **Reply #22 on:** February, 04, 2011, 07:52:06 AM »

If you're interested, I've got an extra front sway bar out in the shop that I could easily be talked out of for a killer deal. It's either 1.125" or 1.25", can't recall this early in the morning. It's in good shape, except it needs some new bushing on the end links.