Author Topic: Standard vs Power steering box (Read 714 times)

cmayna · « **on:** December, 05, 2009, 06:35:14 AM »

Currently we've been running a power steering box in Red but without power steering. I was originally planning to put PS in the car but I'm still fighting the idea. I've heard that if I wanted to stay without power steering that I should change out the box to a non power box. Supposedly it is much easier to park the car, this way. Comments?

hivewax · « **Reply #1 on:** December, 05, 2009, 06:48:45 AM »

Power steering boxes went into both manual and power steering stock cars, I believe.

hivewax · « **Reply #2 on:** December, 05, 2009, 06:51:11 AM »

And PS boxes had a quicker ratio??

tarafied1 · « **Reply #3 on:** December, 05, 2009, 07:46:25 AM »

Quote from: hivewax on December, 05, 2009, 06:51:11 AM

And PS boxes had a quicker ratio??

Yes, PS boxes have a quicker ratio. Shelby used the quick ratio on the 65 R model I think. But anyway, the quicker ratio is harder to turn at slow speeds without the "assist" of PS. The non-PS ratio makes it easier to steer when parking. Think of the ratio as a mechanical lever, the longer the lever the easier it is but the more you have to move it....

apollard · « **Reply #4 on:** December, 05, 2009, 08:16:32 AM »

My '68 is a PS car. Without the pump hooked up and the cylinder disconneted, slow speed turning is a big effort. Granted, the cylinder adds some effort, but w/o the lines hooked up, I'd think it was minimal.

However, with the pump connected, it's too easy and twitchy. I plan to run mine, but with a valve to modulate the assist provided-
http://www.mustangsplus.com/xcart/product.php?productid=9212&cat=3209&page=1

It's pricey for a simple bypass, but it's cheaper than R&P

gotstang · « **Reply #5 on:** December, 05, 2009, 08:21:26 AM »

Quote from: hivewax on December, 05, 2009, 06:51:11 AM

And PS boxes had a quicker ratio??

Interesting factoid: The handling package and PS boxes are one and the same. The standard MS box is 22:1 vs 16:1 for the other unit. The quick ratio box makes it more responsive at the expense of higher effort. Maybe someone with more practical experience than me can chime in, but a high ratio box should make a big difference in steering effort...I know mine steers pretty easily, but I haven't driven it a whole lot. :rofl

hivewax · « **Reply #6 on:** December, 05, 2009, 08:29:22 AM »

I have a PS box in the '66 and no pump connections. Yes, it takes some effort to turn at parking speed.

cmayna · « **Reply #7 on:** December, 05, 2009, 08:45:27 AM »

Then again, what is the disadvantage (if any) of a manual box at high speeds?

joesgt281 · « **Reply #8 on:** December, 05, 2009, 08:51:06 AM »

Quote from: cmayna on December, 05, 2009, 08:45:27 AM

Then again, what is the disadvantage (if any) of a manual box at high speeds?

At high speeds the manual box will be less responsive.
I have the PS box, no pump and I love it at high speed, particularly if on the track.
It's only a bit of a challenge at low speeds.
My wife wouldn't like it, but it's ok for me.

tarafied1 · « **Reply #9 on:** December, 05, 2009, 10:56:33 AM »

I have a PS gearbox too with no PS hooked up. It's okay at anything over about 5 mph. Turning around in a parking lot or parking in a tight space is a real pain with wider "grippy" tires and big block but when rolling it's nice. I driven my dad's 66 with MS gearbox and at slow speeds it feels like PS compared to mine but as stated, mine is more responsive at speed. Neither are like modern R&P though.

Opentracker · « **Reply #10 on:** December, 05, 2009, 06:39:16 PM »

Let me add that you DO NOT want to add power steering to a manual box. You will have the weirdest feeling power steering you have ever felt.

Starfury · « **Reply #11 on:** December, 05, 2009, 07:28:37 PM »

I have the 22:1 m/s box on my car and I'm not a fan, but that's because I'm finicky and willing to sacrifice a bit of driveability for a bigger performance gain.

Steering effort isn't bad at all while parking, especially with a roller idler and roller perches. The only problem I really have with the setup is having to spin the wheel so many friggin times while trying to turn. High speed turns are a nightmare. This is why I have a 16:1 box in my living room waiting for me to get money to send it off and get it rebuilt.

If you want m/s, you may like the 22:1 box. It's much more driver friendly than a m/s 16:1 box would be. It'll just be more of a PITA when you want to swing the car around quickly.

Jonk67 · « **Reply #12 on:** December, 05, 2009, 10:12:04 PM »

I have PS stock 16:1 box but have installed the larger PS pump pulley to lessen the input somewhat, worked pretty good before I took the car down, gave more steering feedback. The larger pulley is similar to installing a valve to lower pressure.

I'll have to see how it performs once everything is back together with roller perches, adj. strutrods, new rebuild on the gearbox, stronger motor, etc.
Jon

apollard · « **Reply #13 on:** December, 06, 2009, 11:16:55 AM »

Quote from: Jonk67 on December, 05, 2009, 10:12:04 PM

I have PS stock 16:1 box but have installed the larger PS pump pulley to lessen the input somewhat, worked pretty good before I took the car down, gave more steering feedback. The larger pulley is similar to installing a valve to lower pressure.

Where did you get the larger pulley - online, look for a year/model in junkyard, etc?

Midlife · « **Reply #14 on:** December, 06, 2009, 12:28:45 PM »

Quote from: Opentracker on December, 05, 2009, 06:39:16 PM

Let me add that you DO NOT want to add power steering to a manual box. You will have the weirdest feeling power steering you have ever felt.

I was under the impression that for 65/66, there is an insignificant difference between the 16:1 manual and power steering box itself, and that they are essentially interchangeable.

tarafied1 · « **Reply #15 on:** December, 06, 2009, 02:19:56 PM »

if you have the 16:1 gearbox with manual steering it is the same as the 16:1 PS gearbox. Typically the manual is 22:1.

silverblueBP · « **Reply #16 on:** December, 06, 2009, 02:35:01 PM »

I have the 16:1 manual box, roller idler and the quick steer linkage. It's only hard to turn with wide, sticky track tires on. For street use it's no problem. On the track it's great, all the way up to the gear limited 120mph.

Opentracker · « **Reply #17 on:** December, 06, 2009, 03:54:02 PM »

Quote from: Midlife on December, 06, 2009, 12:28:45 PM

I was under the impression that for 65/66, there is an insignificant difference between the 16:1 manual and power steering box itself, and that they are essentially interchangeable.

When I worked at a Mustang restoration shop years ago, we had several customers come it with funky power steering. First thing we would check is the type of box that was in the car. If it was a manual box, we'd swap in a PS box and the car drove fine. It has something to do with the calibration. I don't like power steering, only one of our cars has it and it's factory issue.

Jonk67 · « **Reply #18 on:** December, 06, 2009, 05:42:52 PM »

Quote from: apollard on December, 06, 2009, 11:16:55 AM

Where did you get the larger pulley - online, look for a year/model in junkyard, etc?

I asked a similar question to the OP on another board 'how to lower the PS pressure assist' and a member sold me a larger pulley he had extra.

Here's a list from stangerssite that shows which ones will interchange, you'll have to find your year/size and then look for another that will fit your shaft/etc. but be a bigger diameter:
http://www.stangerssite.com/fordpumppulleyID1.html

Jon