Author Topic: Fuel filler Mods (Read 9390 times)

blue65coupe · « **Reply #25 on:** September, 10, 2009, 07:30:33 AM »

I was thinking the same thing Jeff. The idea is awesome and it just needs some "tweaking" now. It could even be brass. Great mod and I'd seriously think about a patent and manufacturing.

tarafied1 · « **Reply #26 on:** September, 10, 2009, 08:21:31 AM »

Quote from: daveSanborn on September, 10, 2009, 05:01:19 AM

Craig,

Undoubtedly one of the best modifications to come around in long time, congrats!

When fueling, does the fuel nozzle extend past the new plate leaving the nozzles "splash sensor port" on the dry side of the plate?

Or does the fuel nozzles splash sensor port also extend beyond the plate?

If the fuel nozzles splash sensor port does not extend onto the "wet side" of the plate, will it still function triggering the nozzle to shut off?

Dave,
I set the depth to match my F150 so I assume the nozzle will work the same on the Stang as it does my truck...

Quote from: JeffTepper on September, 10, 2009, 06:48:34 AM

Brilliant solution!!!! Question: Have you considered the possibility of a spark if the pump nozzle scrapes across the hole opening? Might those plastic flappers be plastic for that reason?

I figure the whole filler neck is currently metal so I'm not any more worried of sparks now than before the mod...

Quote from: AzPete on September, 10, 2009, 06:11:45 AM

An advantage to having the flapper over Craig's Little Hole would be anti splash back upon hard driving. Not that any of us do that but I have seen some slosh leak out the venting on others cars.

Since the plate is inside the original neck and uses the same cap, I figure any slosh from hard driving will go back down thru the 1/8" hole I put at the bottom of the plate and the cap will seal as it always has...

Quote from: daveSanborn on September, 10, 2009, 05:01:19 AM

"Craig's Little Hole".

good one! Thanks for the feedback guys.

Quote from: crustycurmudgeon on September, 09, 2009, 08:23:21 PM

I do have a later model filler neck with a metal "flapper" piece that I thought might work.

I went to the hardware store and got some 2 1/4" washers that are exactly the right size for this. The hole in the center is about the same size as the hole in the aforementioned later filler neck. My thought was to cut into the right and left sides of the filler neck leaving just a tiny bit uncut at the top and bottom, grind flats in two opposite sides of the washer, then slide the washer into the cuts, and weld. This should accomplish the vent/drainback feature that you put into yours, as there would be a tiny gap at the top and bottom after it's all welded in.

Whaddya think?

Frank

I think that is a good idea, some of the ones I have looked at have a similar concept. It could work!

lethal289 · « **Reply #27 on:** September, 10, 2009, 03:59:35 PM »

by having just an uncoated piece of sheet metal in there, are you at all worried about corrosion, or contaminating the fuel at some point?

tarafied1 · « **Reply #28 on:** September, 10, 2009, 04:17:13 PM »

yeah, rust is a concern. Condensation and sitting could be an issue. Might have to try some type of coating.

AzPete · « **Reply #29 on:** September, 10, 2009, 04:23:18 PM »

If I remember correct, the metal ones in the past did not cause sparks nor did they corrode AND the metal (no flapper) one on my '07 GT has done neither also.

lethal289 · « **Reply #30 on:** September, 10, 2009, 04:29:25 PM »

Quote from: AzPete on September, 10, 2009, 04:23:18 PM

If I remember correct, the metal ones in the past did not cause sparks nor did they corrode AND the metal (no flapper) one on my '07 GT has done neither also.

Sure but i would bet that the stock factory metals have corrosion resistance, in at least some sort of galvanized coating. Not just a regular piece of sheet metal that it appears Craig has done. Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking it at all. I think its pure genius. I also recommend Craig gets it patented before somebody steals it. It just needs a little more tweaking. Great job!

Sluggo · « **Reply #31 on:** September, 10, 2009, 05:27:32 PM »

Aren't gas pump nozzles made out of some potmetal looking material?

silverblueBP · « **Reply #32 on:** September, 10, 2009, 05:46:57 PM »

I say Jake goes to a gas station tomorrow with a piece of flint. Strike that baby down the side of the pump nozzle and then report back. If we don't have an answer by tomorrow night, then we'll know that there was a spark.

:burn

lethal289 · « **Reply #33 on:** September, 10, 2009, 05:48:14 PM »

your not going to get rid of me that easy. Ill wear a fire suit! :yikes

crustycurmudgeon · « **Reply #34 on:** September, 10, 2009, 05:49:04 PM »

In the very limited reading I've done on the internet, apparently there's frequently a very small spark created when touching the filler nozzle to the filler neck, but it rarely causes a fire. What I read also states that a large static charge is built up simply from the flow of the gasoline out of the nozzle and if the nozzle isn't touching the filler neck it could cause a larger spark. It looks like the design of this mod will better the chance of this constant metal to metal contact and decrease the chance of a large enough spark to ignite the vapor.

Frank

tarafied1 · « **Reply #35 on:** September, 10, 2009, 08:04:50 PM »

many patents already exist...

Quote

2319567 Method of filling tanks May, 1943 Vegell
2336430 Separating apparatus December, 1943 Wery
3044270 Anti-splash liquid gas filler July, 1962 Biever
3180376 Supply tank for viscous materials April, 1965 Sanborn
3187936 Integral fuel filler pipe and vent tube June, 1965 Downing
3602030 METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR PRODUCING TAPERED TUBE August, 1971 Nado et al.
3979010 Fuel tank for a motor vehicle September, 1976 Fiedler et al.
4034784 Filler neck to inhibit use of leaded fuel July, 1977 Ball et al.
4195673 Fuel tank fill tube with a magnetically actuated valve April, 1980 Johnston et al.
4204563 Discharge spout tip for a liquid fuel-dispensing nozzle May, 1980 Pyle
4234098 Fuel tank fill port extension November, 1980 Miller et al.
4386514 Method forming a drawn container and a container produced by this method June, 1983 Herten
4450880 Filler pipe for a fuel tank May, 1984 Scheurenbrand
4462620 Motor vehicle fill pipe to fuel tank connector July, 1984 Bambenek et al.
4632270 Fuel supply port structure of fuel tank for vehicle December, 1986 Sasaki et al.
4635813 Filler neck insert January, 1987 Peickert
4782974 Oil tank safety cap adapter and method of application by retrofitting November, 1988 Elkayam
5056570 Capless vehicle refueling system October, 1991 Harris et al.
5271438 Capless vehicle refueling system with moving fill passageway December, 1993 Griffin et al.
5309961 Nozzle for filler pipes in packaging machines May, 1994 Franke et al.
5360040 Fuel tank fill control device November, 1994 Thorn et al.
5385179 Nozzle restrictor assembly January, 1995 Bates et al.
5415316 Fuel tank with a recessed fill cap May, 1995 Pemberton et al.
5507324 Fuel fill devices for boats April, 1996 Whitley, II et al.
5590806 Fuel fill pipe shelf for a generator set fuel tank January, 1997 Green et al.
5673738 Fill conduit for fuel tank October, 1997 Spaulding
D392020 Fill neck for a fuel tank March, 1998 Fairles
5735322 End piece and nozzle receptor for a fill pipe of a vehicular fuel tank April, 1998 Palvolgyi
5791387 Closable fuel fill inlet stub, particularly to fill lead-free gasoline into the fuel tank of a motor vehicle August, 1998 Palvolgyi
5860460 Refueling pipe structure in fuel tank January, 1999 Hidano et al.
6289945 Fuel fill assembly with vent passage September, 2001 Haboush, II
6336482 Automotive fuel tank fill assembly January, 2002 Cunkle et al.
6405767 Fuel fill pipe assembly with vortexing vanes June, 2002 Marsala et al.
6523582 Automobile fuel filler port structure February, 2003 Furuta
6585015 Container July, 2003 Hughes
20030089424 Fuel fill tube assembly May, 2003 Gabbey et al.

the filler neck is metal is some cases. I don't think the spark issue is a concern:

Quote

Also, preferably the fill pipe is made of a metallic material for reduction of hydrocarbon permeation through the filler neck assembly.

maybe powder coating would be an option for corrosion resistance? Welding galvanized metal will destroy the treatment.

tarafied1 · « **Reply #36 on:** September, 10, 2009, 08:13:53 PM »

the flapper must be part of the method to prevent leaded fuel flow and I don't think it's really needed since leaded fuel isn't regularly available...

Quote

When filling is attempted using non-leaded fuel, the opening permits insertion of the fuel nozzle therethrough. The spring steel deflector is easily moved out of the way by the accepted nozzle to permit rapid filling of the tank with non-leaded fuel.

However, when filling is attempted from the leaded fuel nozzle, a portion of the fuel is intercepted and impinges on the deflector and is deflected or diverted laterally and upwardly through a pair of apertures in the restrictor toward a signal port in the nozzle. The signal port normally bleeds an atmospheric pressure signal to a vacuum-operated mechanism in the nozzle for shutting off fuel flow. By interrupting that pressure signal the deflected fuel actuates the vacuum-operated shut-off mechanism to prevent entry of appreciable quantities of leaded fuel.

AzPete · « **Reply #37 on:** September, 11, 2009, 05:07:35 AM »

The reasons I remember for the reduced inlet size. One was to only allow the unleaded nozzle because the leaded was larger. The flapper door would not allow you to insert a leaded nozzle part way and fill it allowing the fuel to flow thru the open hole. I know many that tried it. If there was a larger, leaded type nozzle out there today, you could fill a car that did not have the flapper.

AtlantaSteve · « **Reply #38 on:** September, 11, 2009, 05:49:37 AM »

Craig, I was filling my 99 camry today. It has a metal filler tube, with metal flapper door assembly.

The flapper door is attatched not to a flat sheet of metal, like your design, but rather a cup that is slipped into the tube and spot welded into place. I am not sure if the inner diameter of my camry's filler tube is the same as the mustang's, but I bet it's close enough for government work. It has the two holes directly above the door, just like your quoted description.

I think it would be fairly easy to graft this in. Probably not necessary, as you implied from your description of the flapper-door's functionality, but would look exactly like a modern car.

Thanks for posting this. I'm definitely going to try mimicking your work.

Steve

tarafied1 · « **Reply #39 on:** September, 11, 2009, 06:09:02 AM »

Quote from: lethal289 on September, 10, 2009, 04:29:25 PM

Sure but i would bet that the stock factory metals have corrosion resistance, in at least some sort of galvanized coating...

Best I can tell the originals are made from zinc plated stamped steel. I found this product I might get if I make any more...

Quote

KBS FUEL TANK SEALER KIT

A
CONTAINS EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO SEAL A TANK OF UP TO 25 GALLONS. CONTAINS 2
QUARTS AQUAKLEAN, 1 QUART RUSTBLAST, 1 QUART GOLD STANDARD TANK SEALER, 1
PAIR NITRILE GLOVES AND A STIR STICK. THESE KBS PREP PRODUCTS ARE FORMULATE
D WITH A UNIQUE OXYGEN BLOCK TECHNOLOGY WHICH REDUCES THE OCCURANCE OF FLASH RUST BY OVER 80% AND EXTENDS RUST FREE STORAGE TIMES BY LEAVING A TEMPORARY PROTECTIVE COATING IN ADDITION TO A ZINC PHOSPHATE FILM. IDEAL FOR RESTORING A TANK OR PUTTING IN A BRAND NEW TANK FOR PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE.

Thanks for the input Steve and Pete (everyone for that matter). This weekend I might check another salvage yard for a doner. I'll check for Camry parts but I don't think I'll admit to using Toyota parts on a Mustang!

daveSanborn · « **Reply #40 on:** September, 11, 2009, 12:06:17 PM »

Quote from: Sluggo on September, 10, 2009, 05:27:32 PM

Aren't gas pump nozzles made out of some potmetal looking material?

I assume them to be made of an aluminum alloy.... anyone travel around with a magnet that can check this?

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the added in restrictor plate rusting. It'll only rust as fast as any exposed internal surface area of the gas tank. Unless everyone here is constantly riding around with a full tank of gas and never lets the tank sit "not full", the inside of your gas tank is likely rusting to some extent.

68EFIvert · « **Reply #41 on:** September, 30, 2009, 07:04:10 PM »

This is a great idea. If you are concerned about rust you could use a gas tank sealer (available through Eastwood) to seal the metal. If you decide to make these I would buy one!!!!!

tarafied1 · « **Reply #42 on:** September, 30, 2009, 07:20:44 PM »

I kinda botched up one for another member here, he will test it in his area and give us feedback. I'm gonna make one like mine for my dad's 66 so that will be more feedback. I have filled my car several times since installing (one drawback to a 429 with 4:11's and no OD). I have seen a dramatic improvement in slosh or splash during the fill. Some pumps will still cause a little splash if allowed to autostop at full blast. I made the hole a little too big on mine. The other one used a washer with a tighter fit, we'll see how he reports on it. I'll make my dad's with a tighter fit on the nozzle as well. I have soem gas tank sealer now too so I will coat this next one. Thanks for the interest. If I get the bugs worked out I might have to crank out enough at least for members here.

lethal289 · « **Reply #43 on:** September, 30, 2009, 07:28:36 PM »

Thats awesome craig. :toot :toot Just dont forget you have to put the coupes ahead of all those other guys! :boo :naug

tarafied1 · « **Reply #44 on:** September, 30, 2009, 07:31:41 PM »

Quote from: lethal289 on September, 30, 2009, 07:28:36 PM

Thats awesome craig. :toot :toot Just dont forget you have to put the coupes ahead of all those other guys! :boo :naug

Well the first few so far are for coupes! :pep

Fast68back · « **Reply #45 on:** October, 01, 2009, 04:14:21 AM »

How about running, coupes "on the road", that still puts Jake at the back of the line....

silverblueBP · « **Reply #46 on:** October, 01, 2009, 08:51:10 AM »

Quote from: Fast68back on October, 01, 2009, 04:14:21 AM

How about running, coupes "on the road", that still puts Jake at the back of the line....

How embarrassing :bike

AzPete · « **Reply #47 on:** October, 01, 2009, 09:00:21 AM »

I would be willing to send you a stock neck after receiving a modified one........plus a bit of compensation.....lol Since I drive mine all the time, I hate to have it down for the time to ship and build. Does this work for you?